Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[cirdan]

They do have a whole testing protocol every time they change something. It's not instant, it's old-style deployment & testing (which seems to have stopped in most of the software industry back in the mid-1990s).

having spent three years of my life in automated software testing and quality assurance I can assure you that even with very thorough testing procedures there will always be a glitch or two we will have missed.

Nobody sells software with the promise that its perfect. Standards authorities merely lay down the required levels of integrity and testing.

 

[Brian_tampa]

Brightline wants another billion in PABs.

Brightline wants another $1 billion in financing for Miami to Orlando

It includes an additional $310M to be spent in Brevard, $180M in Orange, and $90M in Palm Beach counties.

The presentation document lists additional track and bridges construction, but no details of it. I recall that after the last PAB tranche was sold in 2019, Brightline said that would complete the financing for phase 2 WPB to MCO.

What changed?

This is the link to the presentation I have attached.

https://ca5cce56-0e6c-4988-82a7-748...d/b1b27e_7eeb09ba8be04eb18a339ebd91117e62.pdf

you can also look for it on this web page link NOTICES | fdfc

 

[neroden]

This is basically improvements. The extra bridge which isn't strictly needed, the extra stations probably.

 

[cirdan]

Isn’t this a bit late ? Now that the line is virtually complete and the trains are being delivered ? I guess this is upgrade work to improve the line subsequently and not something needed to complete the original line .

 

[jis]

Brightline considering upto a total of 12 stations in Florida

 

[Scott Orlando]

Seems like there could be a supply of revenue with maybe a few more.
The stations:
Obviously- half the list

- Miami
- Ft Lauderdale
- WPB
- Aveventura
- Boca Raton
- Orlando

….to Tampa
- Tampa
- Disney Springs

….so that leaves possibly
- Cocoa
- Ft Pierce or Stuart
- Lakeland
- Orlando Convention/I Drive (if 528 route)

It seems like they are (very smartly) not making anyone promises beyond the first 8. The last four seem like the best choices
(Disclaimer: I think BL needs to get I Drive hotels , Florida government, Universal, Sea World, OIA, onboard to make 528 happen. I work for Disney so we are a no brainer, but a station at both would benefit everyone)

The goal is both ridership and near station land development for BL/FECI. Every train doesn’t have to stop at every station. The FEC Tri Rail plan is a brilliant commuter route. So would an East-West Sunrail route in Orlando,...Thoughts??

 

[user 1215]

I think what they really want to avoid is local traffic between I-Drive and Disney. It would clog up a lot of seats preventing availability for through travel.

I wonder which would be better? Separate or shared Sunrail service for that local traffic? Even though presumably Brightline would have different platforms and ticketing than Sunrail, the additional traffic could hinder Brightline's prime customer base. But, it looks like they have that figured out in the Miami-WPB corridor, with freight, too.

I did my time at WDW. Where are you at, Scott? Feel free to IM if you don't want to make it a public convo.

 

[Scott Orlando]

Corporate IT in Celebration

 

[user 1215]

Corporate IT in Celebration

Nice. I was just a full time hourly guy back in the 90's. Did everything from central reservations, minibars, bouncer at Pleasure Island, Jungle Cruise skipper, etc. Also had 5 years at Tokyo Disneyland in the 80's. Would have loved to take the engineering I'm doing now and using it there. Had a friend in industrial engineering at the main office next to Casting, but I guess most corporate stuff has moved to celebration.

 

[Anderson]

I think what they really want to avoid is local traffic between I-Drive and Disney. It would clog up a lot of seats preventing availability for through travel.

I wonder which would be better? Separate or shared Sunrail service for that local traffic? Even though presumably Brightline would have different platforms and ticketing than Sunrail, the additional traffic could hinder Brightline's prime customer base. But, it looks like they have that figured out in the Miami-WPB corridor, with freight, too.

I did my time at WDW. Where are you at, Scott? Feel free to IM if you don't want to make it a public convo.

I mean...I feel like the solution would be to either handle I-Drive-to-Disney with pricing/capacity controls or to (potentially) run some Airport-to-Disney trains with a different configuration. If they're running 1-2tpa Orlando-Tampa, another 1-2tpa wouldn't likely foul the line too badly...

 

[user 1215]

I mean...I feel like the solution would be to either handle I-Drive-to-Disney with pricing/capacity controls or to (potentially) run some Airport-to-Disney trains with a different configuration. If they're running 1-2tpa Orlando-Tampa, another 1-2tpa wouldn't likely foul the line too badly...

Is tpa trains per hour? If so, that'd be fine, especially since this is an all new, exclusive ROW. I'd say that 10 minute headways in each direction should be fine with current technologies.

If it hasn't been considered already, any new trackage between MCO and Disney should be as grade separated as Cocoa to MCO. There are just too many bad drivers when you get thousands of folks in from outside the US who are not used to driving here.

 

[jis]

If it hasn't been considered already, any new trackage between MCO and Disney should be as grade separated as Cocoa to MCO. There are just too many bad drivers when you get thousands of folks in from outside the US who are not used to driving here.

It will be completely grade separated as will the Disney Springs to Tampa segment be.

 

[jiml]

Not an ideal return:
Brightline Hits Car in Pompano Beach on 1st Day High-Speed Train Returns – NBC 6 South Florida (nbcmiami.com)

 

[Qapla]

The car turned onto the tracks while trying to turn right onto the road ... this was not the fault of the train.

 

[Qapla]

Brightline Orlando Line Construction Part 1: Narcoossee Road, SR 417, Innovation Way - Oct/Nov 2021

 

[jiml]

The car turned onto the tracks while trying to turn right onto the road ... this was not the fault of the train.

No argument but, according to the media, it's always the fault of the train. You'd think it leaves the tracks and hunts down innocent victims. There were several worse headlines describing this incident.

 

[Qapla]

I have commented several times about this disparity in reporting and the way the media phrases things.

 

[Cal]

The car turned onto the tracks while trying to turn right onto the road ... this was not the fault of the train.

Is it EVER the fault of the train?

 

[chrsjrcj]

Is it EVER the fault of the train?

There was an incident with Tri-Rail a long time ago where the train crew did not flag a crossing they were supposed to and struck a truck.

 

[cirdan]

There was an incident with Tri-Rail a long time ago where the train crew did not flag a crossing they were supposed to and struck a truck.

When I learn to drive, which admittedly was many many years ago, I was told to always look both ways before crossing any rail tracks, and not to blindly trust any warning lights or other mechanisms.

My driving instructor would go ballistic if he thought I hadn't looked properly so I made a point of making sure he had seen I was looking.

Once we crossed a track that I knew (as a local railfan) that was not only disused but not connected to anything because tracks had been removed and built on in both directions. When I told him so he still went ballistic and said that's no reason not to look. You never know he said, because things might change.

 

[JoshP]

But the thing is Brightline had accident yesterday hitting a car and hurt a mother/child.

 

[cirdan]

The goal is both ridership and near station land development for BL/FECI. Every train doesn’t have to stop at every station. The FEC Tri Rail plan is a brilliant commuter route. So would an East-West Sunrail route in Orlando,...Thoughts??

The problem with not having every train stop at every station mean

1) individual stations get less service overall
2) the schedule gets much more complex to understand and may involve having to change trains and long waits which will make it less attractive overall

Unless there is a massive increase in overall train frequency I think skipping stops is not a good idea. This sort of thing appeals to railfan foamers who like to see complex operations and intricate schedules with trains overtaking all over the place, but they don't appeal to the average travelling public.

If a stop is not worth serving it shouldn't be built.

 

[joelkfla]

The problem with not having every train stop at every station mean

1) individual stations get less service overall
2) the schedule gets much more complex to understand and may involve having to change trains and long waits which will make it less attractive overall

Unless there is a massive increase in overall train frequency I think skipping stops is not a good idea. This sort of thing appeals to railfan foamers who like to see complex operations and intricate schedules with trains overtaking all over the place, but they don't appeal to the average travelling public.

If a stop is not worth serving it shouldn't be built.

I disagree. Station stops should depend on ridership patterns and counts.

If trains are running on 30-minute headways during peak hours, I see nothing wrong with alternating between express and local trains, as long as the express won't catch up to the local.

If a station has ridership in the peak times but virtually no riders during midday, I think it's OK to serve it peak times only, or perhaps stopping every 2 hours instead of each hour during midday.

 

[user 1215]

I disagree. Station stops should depend on ridership patterns and counts.

If trains are running on 30-minute headways during peak hours, I see nothing wrong with alternating between express and local trains, as long as the express won't catch up to the local.

If a station has ridership in the peak times but virtually no riders during midday, I think it's OK to serve it peak times only, or perhaps stopping every 2 hours instead of each hour during midday.

I agree to a point. However, it can create less demand during peak times if service is too sparse during non peak times. For example, in Dallas, I would ride the TRE from Dallas to Fort Worth for some reason in the morning during the morning rush. But I needed to return in the middle of the day. But the frequency during the middle of the day was around 2 hours (this was way back in the early TRE days). So, I opted to drive instead. Some of the stations don't even have a place to sit or shade from the sun. Very uncomfortable.

I think a compromised approach would keep ridership and temper the costs.

 

[me_little_me]

The problem with not having every train stop at every station mean

1) individual stations get less service overall
2) the schedule gets much more complex to understand and may involve having to change trains and long waits which will make it less attractive overall

Unless there is a massive increase in overall train frequency I think skipping stops is not a good idea. This sort of thing appeals to railfan foamers who like to see complex operations and intricate schedules with trains overtaking all over the place, but they don't appeal to the average travelling public.

If a stop is not worth serving it shouldn't be built.

NYC has been able to survive with express trains that skip stops and local ones that don't. So does Amtrak with both Acelas and Regionals. Not every stop needs to have every train.