Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[Willbridge]

I looked into the subject of grade crossing accidents and one-car accidents in Alberta years ago as it was an issue on the punctual Edmonton<>Calgary Dayliners and not on the CN and CP transcons. It looked as though some of the accidents were disguised suicides and that local authorities were reluctant to study them in detail out of "concern for the families." It also appeared that a lot of publicity about the specific rail line being dangerous (as compared to generic crossing safety campaigns) encouraged one-vehicle, one person crossing accidents.

Florida has plenty of academics. It would be worthwhile for a professor and some students to delve deeper into the accidents to see what patterns turn up.

 

[user 1215]

I think it's already been determined that many of the deaths related to Brightline were suicide related. But the cars running around crossing gates is just Darwin deselecting from the species.

 

[Palmland]

An article this morning in the Orlando Sentinel talks about a new Icelandic airline, PLAY, brining discount fares to Europe. According to their CEO one of the reason they chose Orlando is Brightline! -

“ Jónsson said his three-year-old company evaluated Florida’s major airports, including at Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Tampa. A reason the airline chose Orlando was the coming passenger service by Brightline Trains between Orlando and South Florida, starting in about a year.
“I’m not going to say it’s a deciding factor but it’s a major factor,”

 

[user 1215]

An article this morning in the Orlando Sentinel talks about a new Icelandic airline, PLAY, brining discount fares to Europe. According to their CEO one of the reason they chose Orlando is Brightline! -

“ Jónsson said his three-year-old company evaluated Florida’s major airports, including at Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Tampa. A reason the airline chose Orlando was the coming passenger service by Brightline Trains between Orlando and South Florida, starting in about a year.
“I’m not going to say it’s a deciding factor but it’s a major factor,”

The European travel agency TUI is starting 787 flights into our little Melbourne airport starting in March. Even though, as a full service travel agency, TUI offers connections and ground transportation, they are talking about bringing 100,000 tourists through Melbourne each year. It would be nice to have a Brightline stop in Melbourne AND Cocoa to facilitate. I would really like to see Brightline start talking about a "local" service.

 

[jis]

Brightline’s Miami to Orlando train service is one step closer to completion, while service to Tampa is also moving forward.

The company announced last week that it has completed construction of one of four zones needed to start service between Miami and Orlando.

Brightline also told investors last week that it has now completed negotiations with the Florida Department of Transportation for right-of-way access to build an extension to Tampa, and expects to execute a final agreement with the agency in early 2022.

https://www.thenextmiami.com/bright...st-orlando-zone-finalizes-tampa-negotiations/

 

[jis]

MODERATOR'S NOTES: Post about Melbourne International Airport have been moved to their own little thread under Non-Rail Transportation Forum.

https://www.amtraktrains.com/threads/melbourne-international-airport-mlb.81280/

 

[joelkfla]

Here's a trip report video with a look at the Miami Central Premium Lounge and the Premium coach:

 

[user 1215]

Been thinking about the Disney Springs expansion and how they plan on doing that...

I think that the maximum train length being considered for station design is going to be 10 cars + 2 locos? or 8+2? That's about 850-1000' train set. What's the minimum turning radius for that trainset?

I know that the platform doesn't have to be perfectly straight, but the curvature of Buena Vista Dr is opposite of the way the train would be coming in/out of I-4/FL-417. I'd assume you'd want the train to stop as close to the Disney Springs area as possible, so that would be the North side of BV Dr. Currently, the two parking garages are 700-750' long. You could extend past that and co-habitate a station there. Maybe they would build over the current Disney bus terminal. That'd probably make more sense, and and elevated station could go 1,000 feet, but it would cross over the streets on either side of the bus area. It would make for a nice "intermodal" station.

But back to the minimum turn radius. Are they going to try to do a through train or a terminating stub and reverse direction? I've never liked the stub and reverse idea, because people generally prefer to sit viewing forward. But these trainsets are such that half the seats face forward and the other half face backwards, so it's already set up to be a bit more conducive than a trainset where all the seats face the same direction. I would think though, that people would easily get confused if they are going one direction then suddenly a different direction (not detraining at DS).

Has the decision to come up 417 been solidified? I seem to have read a report that it had been...

 

[joelkfla]

Been thinking about the Disney Springs expansion and how they plan on doing that...

I think that the maximum train length being considered for station design is going to be 10 cars + 2 locos? or 8+2? That's about 850-1000' train set. What's the minimum turning radius for that trainset?

I know that the platform doesn't have to be perfectly straight, but the curvature of Buena Vista Dr is opposite of the way the train would be coming in/out of I-4/FL-417. I'd assume you'd want the train to stop as close to the Disney Springs area as possible, so that would be the North side of BV Dr. Currently, the two parking garages are 700-750' long. You could extend past that and co-habitate a station there. Maybe they would build over the current Disney bus terminal. That'd probably make more sense, and and elevated station could go 1,000 feet, but it would cross over the streets on either side of the bus area. It would make for a nice "intermodal" station.

But back to the minimum turn radius. Are they going to try to do a through train or a terminating stub and reverse direction? I've never liked the stub and reverse idea, because people generally prefer to sit viewing forward. But these trainsets are such that half the seats face forward and the other half face backwards, so it's already set up to be a bit more conducive than a trainset where all the seats face the same direction. I would think though, that people would easily get confused if they are going one direction then suddenly a different direction (not detraining at DS).

Has the decision to come up 417 been solidified? I seem to have read a report that it had been...

I haven't seen anything about the route selection since last summer, except for the formation of a lobbying organization by the I-Drive interests. The last I heard, no decision had been made.

Both proposed routes appeared to have a stub-end station.

I don't think the actual location has been revealed, but I seem to recall an early statement by Disney or Brightline about elevated tracks over a ground-level headhouse. There was a lot of discussion on a Disney fan board about where the station might be located, but nobody claimed to have any inside knowledge (which is often claimed on Disney fan boards.)

ETA: There is enough room for a station perpendicular to BVD over the parking lots west of DS. You might also fit one in parallel to BVD on the south side. I can't see how one would fit parallel on the north side, unless it were elevated way over the tops of the garages.

 

[user 1215]

Well, that's about what I've heard, too. I was hoping someone would have some inside knowledge!

 

[Scott Orlando]

As a CM I can tell you (a) there is nothing being said definitively (b) If knew and I told you I would have to kill you . There are rumors that one possibility for a through station could be the area between Team Disney and the Grapefruit garage, south of BV Drive. Another is a stub station in the parking area south of Cirque du Soleil (a stub station). Of course much is up in the air with no route choosen

 

[joelkfla]

As a CM I can tell you (a) there is nothing being said definitively (b) If knew and I told you I would have to kill you . There are rumors that one possibility for a through station could be the area between Team Disney and the Grapefruit garage, south of BV Drive. Another is a stub station in the parking area south of Cirque du Soleil (a stub station). Of course much is up in the air with no route choosen

Those sound like bus driver rumors.
(I was a Disney bus driver once upon a time.)

 

[user 1215]

Com'on, man! Legacy CM OG here. lol

Next to Team Disney seems to be a good spot for a stub station, but I think an intermodal facility where the current bus farm is would be best for a through station.

I remember when elevated garages were poopoo'd by WDW. Suddenly, they're everywhere!

 

[Scott Orlando]

Those sound like bus driver rumors.
(I was a Disney bus driver once upon a time.)

Lol. They are kinda bus driver rumors. I work for corporate and its still not clear if this is corporate or WDPR. Probably parks and resorts, the only presence corporate has is the Team Disney building
(Outside the Celebration offices ). Disney Springs mostly a mix of WDPR and private leases. As you know Disney is a rumor mill that 99% are bs. Heck, at one time there was a rumor that the part of I4 that widens with a forest in the middle (directly behind my office) was going to be a station location (in the I4 median) with bus and or monorail station. I love great Disney rumors.

The monorail people I know say expansion is extremely unlikely. Ever.

 

[user 1215]

The nice thing about re-doing the bus hub and co-locating it with the train station is that it would provide a simple transfer to resorts. Currently, though, there is no transportation to the parks from DS (for obvious reasons - keeping people from free parking and headed to the parks). That may have to change with Brightline sharing a sort of "Union Station".

Hey - I kinda like that. Old fashioned, but "Disney Union Station" has an interesting ring to it.

 

[joelkfla]

The nice thing about re-doing the bus hub and co-locating it with the train station is that it would provide a simple transfer to resorts. Currently, though, there is no transportation to the parks from DS (for obvious reasons - keeping people from free parking and headed to the parks). That may have to change with Brightline sharing a sort of "Union Station".

Hey - I kinda like that. Old fashioned, but "Disney Union Station" has an interesting ring to it.

If you have arriving train passengers using Disney Transport, you have to provide some way for them to get their bags to the resort. Officially, luggage is not allowed on Disney Transport (though that wasn't the internal policy when I was driving.)

One solution to that would be to provide dedicated motor coach transfer from within the station's secured perimeter to Disney resorts. That would solve the luggage transfer problem, with bags going in the underfloor compartments. Then they could also provide direct transportation to the parks, restricted to train passengers.

But now that Disney has abandoned Magical Express, they may be content letting everyone just find their own way.

 

[UserNameRequired]

Open KDWS back up and have real intermodal!

 

[jis]

Open KDWS back up and have real intermodal!

Could you perhaps be a little less pithy please? Some of us have no clue what your talking about.

 

[UserNameRequired]

Could you perhaps be a little less pithy please? Some of us have no clue what your talking about.

Sorry, green font means joking, KDWS is the closed Lake Buena Vista STOLport at Walt Disney World. All of the WDW talk and transportation options there reminded me I missed my chance by decades of being able to land/depart from there, maybe on my way to get on the Brightline! Just dreaming…

 

[joelkfla]

Why cars are turning onto the tracks:

 

[Coltflyer]

Why cars are turning onto the tracks:

Most major level crossings in the UK (grade crossings in the US) where there is a identified difficult issue for vehicle traffic to cross are lit up at night. What would make this crossing much safer is a pair of down floodlights fully illuminating the crossing plus good street lighting on the approach to and departure on the street highway. I’m sure this would completely cut the vehicle/rail interface incidents at this crossing.

 

[joelkfla]

Is it legal and feasible to put gates across the tracks, which would normally be in closed position and raise when the roadway gates lower? In the event of a malfunction, a locomotive would breeze thru a closed breakaway gate without damage.

I've seen videos of manually operated crossings in other countries where the gate is swung from the tracks to the roadway, but I don't think I've ever seen an automatic gate blocking tracks.

 

[jis]

Frankly they could start with just painting a bright Yellow line along the edge of the road at crossings so that people know very visibly and obviously where the road ends. I am surprised that this has not been a requirement already, but apparently it is not.

 

[joelkfla]

Frankly they could start with just painting a bright Yellow line along the edge of the road at crossings so that people know very visibly and obviously where the road ends. I am surprised that this has not been a requirement already, but apparently it is not.

I think yellow is reserved for the left side of a roadway, so it would have to be white.

 

[jis]

I think yellow is reserved for the left side of a roadway, so it would have to be white.

Anything nice, bright and reflective. White would be fine too as would Bright Pink if all existing colors in the standard is inappropriate for some reason.