Brightline Trains Florida discussion

[Scott Orlando]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/new...OXrDqmel68Bl9yz9qJZtaX2VsrwVNYwZp9uP6RNSiCMTI

Answering my own question….

 

[user 1215]

Well, this is in the news again.

3 Brightline train crashes in 4 days in Palm Beach County (wptv.com)

 

[joelkfla]

Aerial tour of Brightline Vehicle Maintenance Facility at OIA:

 

[jruff001]

Well, this is in the news again.

3 Brightline train crashes in 4 days in Palm Beach County (wptv.com)

This is going to be a HUGE problem as the schedule increases. I can't believe they are going to have so many grade crossings.

 

[CCC1007]

This is going to be a HUGE problem as the schedule increases. I can't believe they are going to have so many grade crossings.

It's simply a matter of cost of removing the existing crossings (No new crossings opened on the mainline for the Brightline service) vs the costs of the disruptions that collisions cause.

 

[neroden]

Perhaps more aggressive anti-car measures -- spikes, bollards rising out of the ground, etc. -- are the way to go.

 

[joelkfla]

Perhaps more aggressive anti-car measures -- spikes, bollards rising out of the ground, etc. -- are the way to go.

This was on the existing trackage. I think all of the crossings on the new double trackage north of WPB are getting 4-quadrant gates, which will make it impossible for cars to go around unless they crash through a gate.

 

[cirdan]

This was on the existing trackage. I think all of the crossings on the new double trackage north of WPB are getting 4-quadrant gates, which will make it impossible for cars to go around unless they crash through a gate.

In my view this is at best a temporary fix as they don't remove the problem of people stopping on the tracks, which tends to happen especially if there is an intersection adjacent to the rail crossing.

 

[Joe from PA]

Way too many grade crossings= more chance to run into an idiot. When we rode this train years ago, they were "gun shy" over 4 recent accidents, We crawled though every grade crossing, turning the 45 minute trip into 2 hours.

 

[user 1215]

Certainly removing grade crossing improves safety. But it also hurts public relations where citizens (and first responders) get mighty testy about adding a couple miles to their journey. The problem is almost all psychological - people are engrained with the belief that as soon as the red lights start flashing, they will be stuck for 10 minutes. I commend CSX for grade separation and almost no grade crossings along their route in this area. FEC was a 2nd tier rail carrier. They didn't have the need to reduce crossings with the few trains they had.

I've actually seen in Japan where they were able to raise the tracks above the grade to remove crossings. I've also seen them completely move a track underground - both of these tasks without ever stopping service. Talk about expensive. But they deemed it worthwhile. In the meantime, Darwin will have his pick of the litter.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Shouldn't the people who live along the Brightline tracks realize by now that taking a chance may cost your life. Are all these people really that stupid?

 

[joelkfla]

In my view this is at best a temporary fix as they don't remove the problem of people stopping on the tracks, which tends to happen especially if there is an intersection adjacent to the rail crossing.

I believe they were also talking about intrusion detectors, but I don't know whether they were installed or if so how extensively.

 

[cirdan]

Certainly removing grade crossing improves safety. But it also hurts public relations where citizens (and first responders) get mighty testy about adding a couple miles to their journey. The problem is almost all psychological - people are engrained with the belief that as soon as the red lights start flashing, they will be stuck for 10 minutes. I commend CSX for grade separation and almost no grade crossings along their route in this area. FEC was a 2nd tier rail carrier. They didn't have the need to reduce crossings with the few trains they had.

I've actually seen in Japan where they were able to raise the tracks above the grade to remove crossings. I've also seen them completely move a track underground - both of these tasks without ever stopping service. Talk about expensive. But they deemed it worthwhile. In the meantime, Darwin will have his pick of the litter.

I believe that in Japan there is actually a fund for this type of thing and local municipalities can somehow apply for money for this type of project.

 

[jis]

I believe that in Japan there is actually a fund for this type of thing and local municipalities can somehow apply for money for this type of project.

There are a few relevant grant programs under the FRA and FHA:

https://railroads.dot.gov/divisions...r-programs/grade-crossing-safety-and-trespass
Here is a bit on on program administered by the FHA for grade crossing upgrades...

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/federalaid/0646bsu1.cfm

 

[jis]

There is also an opportunity for Brightline to capture an entirely new ridership base, if the railroad is willing to add a specific new line of service.

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/intercity/brightline-progress-potential-a-whole-new-market/

 

[Trogdor]

I believe they were also talking about intrusion detectors, but I don't know whether they were installed or if so how extensively.

Intrusion detection systems might work in cases where vehicles get stuck on the tracks. But it seems most collisions are the result of people trying to race the train and the race ending in a tie.

 

[joelkfla]

Intrusion detection systems might work in cases where vehicles get stuck on the tracks. But it seems most collisions are the result of people trying to race the train and the race ending in a tie.

I think all of the crossings on the new double trackage north of WPB are getting 4-quadrant gates, which will make it impossible for cars to go around unless they crash through a gate.

If a vehicle is detected on the tracks when the gate on the exit side of the crossing closes, is there enough time for the PTC to stop the train before reaching the crossing? In the onboard camera video of this accident, it took 30 seconds from the time the car entered the tracks until full stop. There's some engineer reaction time in there, and I don't know whether he went into full emergency braking.

This is the camera footage, which was posted earlier:

 

[cirdan]

The only consequence of there not being enough time to stop would be gates closing earlier, which would obviously be very unpopular.

Maybe a campaign could aim at connecting these two topics and telling motorists, if you feel frustrated about excessively long waiting times, don't blame the train but blame the idiots who race the train.

 

[chrsjrcj]

It doesn’t look like there were quad gates at that crossing. While it certainly doesn’t absolve the driver of any guilt and it won’t completely eliminate all collisions, I do think the local MPOs should look at funding improvements at crossings without quad gates and also fencing.

 

[joelkfla]

It doesn’t look like there were quad gates at that crossing. While it certainly doesn’t absolve the driver of any guilt and it won’t completely eliminate all collisions, I do think the local MPOs should look at funding improvements at crossings without quad gates and also fencing.

I don't recall hearing that Brightline plans to upgrade crossings on the existing trackage to quad gates. The max speed on that segment is only 79 mph, while they've announced a max speed of 110 mph on at least parts of the trackage now being upgraded between WPB & Cocoa.

It certainly would be good PR for Brightline to upgrade them at their expense, or at least offer a 50-50 split with the locals.

 

[Scott Orlando]

Quad gates and fences is the answer to this problem. And perhaps photo equipment at the most notorious crossings.

 

[cirdan]

Quad gates and fences is the answer to this problem. And perhaps photo equipment at the most notorious crossings.

I don't think photo equipment discourages bad driving, but it maybe makes it easier to produce evidence afterwards.

 

[Ryan]

It will if they come with significant fines. Similar to school bus cameras, I'd be supportive of impoundment of the vehicle for a period of time for repeat offenders.

 

[west point]

Red light cameras are a start. Sooner or later a repeat offender will be in a crash. That person should have the book thrown at them. Maybe some passengers can sue the causer for endangering them?

 

[neroden]

Shouldn't the people who live along the Brightline tracks realize by now that taking a chance may cost your life. Are all these people really that stupid?

I assume that's a rhetorical question. Yes, they are.