Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[railiner]

GLI chooses not to cover their parcel racks. But there is a cover in that one spot on each side. The reason for it is to cover the centrifugal blower, that draws ambient air thru those slits, and then ducts them to the individual vents over each seat. The older GLC shown, as well as 'J' models, have those blowers in that spot, but they did not have the slits to aid in circulation....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

That doesn't make sense. The GLC is a 2000 102DL3. The GLI is also a 2000 102DL3. So why does one has slits and the other doesn't? Also, why are the slits on the sides on the parcel racks, rather than the bottom, where the blowers are?

And then why does that 1998 DL3 in the video have no visible centrifugal blower and all the parcel racks are empty and uncovered? Is the centrifugal blower placed where the luggage would usually go (on top of the parcel rack) or is it in between the layers of the parcel rack?

 

[railiner]

I may have asked thus before, but how long ago did GLI start buying the x3-45?

First X3-45 coaches were purchased in 2008.

Anyone know when GLC acquired their first XLII's? (They were used, I believe they came from Orleans Express, or perhaps Hotard....not really sure, but they were painted a powder blue color....back when we pooled with GLC, they sometimes came down from Toronto....

 

[railiner]

I 'googled' the answer....1293,94,and 95 were ex Indian Trails acquired in 2006, I believe...

http://www.busdrawings.com/greyhoundca/xlii/ghc1293left.jpg

 

[rickycourtney]

GLI chooses not to cover their parcel racks. But there is a cover in that one spot on each side. The reason for it is to cover the centrifugal blower, that draws ambient air thru those slits, and then ducts them to the individual vents over each seat. The older GLC shown, as well as 'J' models, have those blowers in that spot, but they did not have the slits to aid in circulation....

Which is really a silly design. I get that it's a simple design... but it would be a far better experience for passengers to have air chilled by the AC system delivered via the air vents. That way passengers can either open or close the vents based on their comfort.

I should mention that the numbers listed are the number of coaches Greyhound purchased, including coaches that run for subsidiaries including BoltBus.

That doesn't make sense. The GLC is a 2000 102DL3. The GLI is also a 2000 102DL3. So why does one has slits and the other doesn't? Also, why are the slits on the sides on the parcel racks, rather than the bottom, where the blowers are?

And then why does that 1998 DL3 in the video have no visible centrifugal blower and all the parcel racks are empty and uncovered? Is the centrifugal blower placed where the luggage would usually go (on top of the parcel rack) or is it in between the layers of the parcel rack?

Design changes?No clue on the other part, you'll have to research that yourself.

I think you're too concerned with ranking things. Suffice it to say, I think generally Prevost makes a better bus than MCI, but MCI buses have some nice features. Each bus has its benefits and drawbacks. The best bus is the one that works best for each operator and for the type of work they do.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I'm ranking intercity buses, if that is what you mean by "work". In that case, it's pretty simple. The D4500CT is inferior to both the H3-45 and X3-45 for intercity use. Sure, it's got the higher driver's seat and the lower window sill. But, overall, it's still worse than the H3-45 and X3-45.

I like a relaxing, daytime bus ride. Those are my favorite bus rides and those are the reason why I'd rather ride a bus than drive. When I drive, I can't relax, I have to pay attention. I like enjoying the scenery and I like the big windows and the splendid lines-of-sight offered by a DL3's low window sills. I'd love if the DL3 was still in production. That low window sill make a big difference to me, because cars never have that low of a window sill. That's just me. To each his own.

As for the vents, I'm going to have to peek inside them the next time I ride a Greyhound DL3. Still, if you go to 7:42 in that DL3 video I posted, you'll see that particular DL3 has completely empty, open parcel racks. No vents, no slits, no covers, just luggage space.

 

[railiner]

The bus in the video did have a small section of the parcel rack (immediately behind the wheelchair door area) covered by a solid panel. The blower could have been there. Not sure about the driver's side, unless it was behind the door covering the forward most part of the rack. The older model buses may not have had the overhead blower....that was an optional extra.

The blower is located on top of the parcel rack. The individual adjustable vents over each seat do not have their own fans. The blower feeds a duct that brings moving air to each seat, to be controlled by the passenger as desired. Both MCI and Prevost use a similar system....one blower on each side blowing ambient air. The VanHool is different,

The overhead vents do blow air-conditioned air to each seat vent thru an overhead duct. The MCI and Prevost use the floor duct to direct A/C and heated air out thru the vents at the bottom of the side windows. The VanHool does not have a duct there. The floor 'duct' on the VanHool is actually a 'baseboard radiator', that carries hot water to help heat the coach in the winter.

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Getting back to the center armrests....I got a chance to check out 72063 today, a 2006 CO2045....its proprietary VanHool seats do have a fold down center armrest....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I'm really confused about the blower on the DL3. I thought what happened is that the DL3 HVAC pumps air through the floor duct and the central air duct in between the 4th and 5th side windows to the parcel racks, where the air travels through the layers of the parcel racks to the individual blowers over the passengers. I thought the tiny vents in the parcel rack railing also received air through this process.

If the HVAC was pumping air to the racks, why would the racks themselves need a blower? And if they do have a blower, wouldn't the blower be inside the parcel rack itself? In that case, why would the vents be over on the inboard sides?

I'm assuming the blower being "on top" of the parcel rack means it is where the luggage would be. Is this true?

But then how come all DL3s have individual vents over the passengers, but not all of them have the grille thing covering that section of the parcel rack?

If the small section behind the lift position was enough to carry the blowers, why would some DL3s have a huge section of the racks covered off? How big are the blowers, anyway?

 

[rickycourtney]

I just don't get why the blowers suck in the ambient air from the roof and blows it back at passengers through their vents in the service unit. After all heat rises so in summer you have hot air being blown back ar passengers.

Also while delivering cold air via the Windows likely keeps them less foggy... it forces all passengers to endure the cold air despite their comfort level.

It would seemingly make more since to deliver the cold air from the AC system to the overhead vents and allow passengers to adjust based on personal comfort.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I must disagree about the window air vents. I much prefer them over any overhead vents and I rarely open or use the overhead blowers because I don't like any air blowing at me from above. To me, the window air vents are the best way of getting air from the HVAC to the interior of the bus. Floor air vents get dirty too easily.

In fact, one reason I never ride Van Hools is because they only blow air from above and lack window vents.

I do agree that taking air from the roof and blowing it back is foolish. I'm guessing they actually don't take air from the roof, but distribute air that had been pumped to the parcel racks by the HVAC.

 

[railiner]

You raise some good questions....I was not aware there was a 'central duct' as you mentioned that carries air from the floor duct up to the parcel rack....perhaps that was an earlier DL-3 design. I really don't know...

The centrifugal blower is about a foot and a half long, and about 8 or 10 inches in diameter, IIRC. It rests behind those grilled doors where bags normally go. As far as I know, they blow strictly ambient air, and receive no air from the coach HVAC system

 

[railiner]

Think of the overseat vents as simply having a ceiling fan circulating the air...than perhaps it seems more sensible....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I understand the point of the ceiling fans, but I still can't make sense of why so many DL3s do not appear to have a centrifugal blower. In the vid I linked, you said the blower could have been in that little section of the parcel racks behind the wheelchair lift. But if it's 1.5 feet long, there's no way such a large cylindrical object could fit in such a small space. And then there's the DL3s that have solid parcel rack covers and no vents. In those, it would be useless to have a centrifugal blower, since it would simply be circulating air around the parcel rack. So those most likely don't have a blower, either.

Why then, do all DL3s have individual overhead vents (blowers) over the passengers?

Well, what I think is that there's a duct going from the HVAC below the floor to the parcel racks. And that duct is in the middle of the bus, right above the HVAC. You know how DL3s have 8 windows per side? The duct appears to be in the support right in the middle, between the 4th and 5th windows.

Here's a picture: https://www.flickr.com/photos/koyah7d/6794537825/sizes/l.

Enlarged version: https://www.flickr.com/photos/koyah7d/6794537825/sizes/o/.

See how the middle support is thicker than the others and takes a turn at the top to meet the parcel rack? All DL3s have that. If that is an air duct, I again find GLC smarter in their choices, since the centrifugal blower is essentially a waste if the HVAC is already pumping air to the parcel racks.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

You may not necessarily are the blower, Swadian. It could be next to the outside wall. The centrifugal blower would assist the hvac to keep the air moving. The very well my be a hvac duct where u say but a blown can.come in useful to keep air moving so that it's the same pressure throughout the system. Does that help at all?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

OK, you've got a point there. Still, the blower section of the parcel racks is completely sealed off from the rest, so you still can't keep pressure even. You're only circulating air within the parcel racks. So the air pressure only holds up inside the parcel racks and the air only comes out when a passenger opens the personal overhead vent.

While we're on the topic of interior air, why doesn't Greyhound open the windows of the D4505s when they are parked in the Ready Lot to release some of those foul odors? One reason Adirondack D4505s might not smell so bad, other than toilet maintenance, is that they possibly air out the bus regularly.

 

[mightyjoe1201]

There's probably a duct or hole we can't see to let air pass thru. At least the vents for the passengers are adjustable. I'd rather not have air that's to I warm or too cold blowing me in the face.

That's probably not a bad idea with buses. Not only would it air the bus out it would give maintenance a chance to be sure the Windows will open idle there's ever an emergency.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

We appear to be talking about the same duct right here. I concur that air blowing in your face is very uncomfortable. If I try to kick back and relax, and there's air blowing in my face from above, you see the problem. Window air vents aren't so bad unless you start leaning on the window.

And that's why I hate the jerking of some of the New D's. You could doze off and your head could bounce against the window. Fall asleep there and you have air blowing in your face while you're sleeping. Very uncomfortable. This problem doesn't occur if the bus doesn't jerk.

I dug up an old driver post that said the New D's jerk because they have taller air bellows and their steering wheels are much stiffer than the DL3. DL3s are reportedly highly sensitive to control inputs and have extremely accurate gauges, unlike Van Hools and Dinas.

It seemed so bad in the D4505s that I was tempted to ask the driver if I could pop open the window at rest stops. I feared I would sound stupid and didn't ask. Perhaps it is against company policy.

 

[railiner]

I'm going to take a closer look at the DL-3 next chance I get..... While the GLC overhead doors didn't have those slots like the newer buses do, they are by no means "air-tight"....there are no seals around the door edges, and there would be no problem drawing in air for the blower, if so equipped....

 

[railiner]

Popping open the side emergency windows is a "no-no". Doing so will sound an alarm on some coaches, among other reasons not to. If emergency ventilation is required, popping open the roof hatches is a better idea. Besides, it will not solve an odor problem. That problem is best solved "at the source"....the coach HVAC will ventilate the coach just as well as opening a window, anyway, unless it is set at 'recirculate', (which should only be used in extreme climatic conditions).

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

It'll sound an alarm? Lamer's does pop open their windows to air out the bus: https://www.flickr.com/photos/formerwmdriver/6738874801/sizes/l. Perhaps it's OK in some bus models and not OK in others?

Would it be OK if the bus engine was turned off?

Looks like a Greyhound driver tricked me again. He said, "We are breathing in recirculated air."

So does that mean D4505s always run on Recirculate or is the driver just stupid and thinks it's recirculating when it isn't? Or perhaps he doesn't know much about buses and put the bus on Recirculate even though there was no adverse weather conditions.

Frankly, a lot of Greyhound drivers these days seem to know very little about the buses they drive. Some can't distinguish between a D4500 and a D4505, and use the terms interchangeably. Some can't distinguish between a Detroit- and a Cummins-powered D4505. Some don't know the clogged toilets cause foul odors. Some have never ridden in the passenger seats and have no clue the seats are painful (they just "deny-till-they-die").

 

[railiner]

Okay...I checked out a GLI DL-3 at The Port today. And I learned something new.....behind those slotted doors are auxiliary air conditioner's! The mullion between the windows that has a section curving into that overhead compartment does not contain an air duct, but rather freon and electrical lines from the main HVAC down below.

So the overhead vents on DL-3's are not simply blowing ambient air, but actually conditioned air. There is a fan inside also, to send the air thru a duct at the back of the rack leading to all of the overhead individual vents.

Live and learn.....

 

[railiner]

Now I'll have to take another look at our 'J's, and our Prevost's....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Thanks for the info! I stand corrected. So the GLI DL3s have extra air conditioners and the GLC ones don't. I'm surprised the GLC examples don't have more powerful HVAC since they operate in more extreme weather conditions. Actually, I looked up some pictures and found out that the older GLC DL3s with the grey winged National seats have the auxiliary HVAC and the newer ones with the blue winged FAINSA Brasil VIP don't.

GLC 1997 DL3 interior: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123779583@N06/15786926422/sizes/l.
GLC 2000 DL3 interior: http://www.kevinsbusrail.com/greyhound/d/gry_1119int.jpg.

Speaking of extra features, didn't some of Greyhound's DL3s have auxiliary fuel tanks? How much capacity would those have?

Also, since Adirondack seems to be doing well, why don't they expand?

 

[railiner]

Thanks for the info! I stand corrected. So the GLI DL3s have extra air conditioners and the GLC ones don't. I'm surprised the GLC examples don't have more powerful HVAC since they operate in more extreme weather conditions. Actually, I looked up some pictures and found out that the older GLC DL3s with the grey winged National seats have the auxiliary HVAC and the newer ones with the blue winged FAINSA Brasil VIP don't.

GLC 1997 DL3 interior: https://www.flickr.com/photos/123779583@N06/15786926422/sizes/l.

GLC 2000 DL3 interior: http://www.kevinsbusrail.com/greyhound/d/gry_1119int.jpg.

I believe you are mistaken.....look again at the second photo....see those unique deeper mullions with the flared top leading into an overhead compartment? While there are no slots in the panel, I believe the A/C unit is inside those compartments.....

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As far as recirculation....there is a control button to either recirculate most of the inside air back into the HVAC, or admit more outside air. When climatic conditions are extreme, like frigid below zero winters, or hot desert summers, or passing thru a tunnel or other smoky condition, it is beneficial to recirculate the air. Other times, it is healthier to admit more fresh outside air. There is always a certain percentage of recirculated or outside air (not sure of the amount) admitted regardless of the setting.....

 

[railiner]

The fuel tanks capacity varies from time to time....check the MCI spec sheets.

As for ADT expanding....there doesn't seem to be any current plans, at least that I am aware of....our current pooling agreement with GLI places certain limitations on us in that regard...Our last route expansion were local routes that GL wished to discontinue...such as Syracuse to Canton, and Albany to Binghamton. We did add a few short extension's a few years ago, such as Buffalo to Niagara Falls, NY....