Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, the J4500 did suck. But they redesigned the coach in 2012, replacing both the original J and E. Now even J-hater BZ-Guy likes the new J.

OTOH, I've ridden five J's, all the old kind, and two failed. So, I'm definitely not a big fan of the J. But then again, the best-seller for 10 years and running can't be that bad.

Yeah, the old G sucked. But it's been rebuilt and is far better now. Even the drivers say it's far better. Like, not even a comparison to the old G.

 

[rickycourtney]

So here's something that might interest you...

Greyhound recently updated its Facts And Figures page. According to the company... the Greyhound active fleet consists of about 1,200 active buses. As of March 2014, 85 percent of Greyhound’s fleet is new or refurbished.

Here's how they say the fleet breaks down "as of May 2014":

MCI D4505 - 188

Prevost X3-45 - 280

MCI G4500 - 175

MCI 102DL3 - 469 (nearly 75% equipped with wheel-chair lifts)

That's 1,112 buses.

But according to the July Washington Post article Greyhound has 1,229 buses in the fleet. I'm inclined to trust that number more.

Here were the numbers "as of March 31, 2013":

MCI D4505 - 184

Prevost X3-45 - 310

MCI G4500 - 291

MCI 102DL3 - 769 (nearly 75% equipped with wheel-chair lifts)

 

[railiner]

Once again, I'm showing my age....but 1,300 in the fleet to me, is but a very thin shadow of what they had when I worked there...

Back in 1973, Greyhound Lines had almost 6,000, GLC had another 300 or so, and that is not even counting all the GL owned or partially owned, subsidiaries of the time, like Vermont Transit, TNM&O, NMT, Gray Line of NY, Walter's Transit, Carey Transportation, Brewster Transport, California Parlor Car Tours, SKGL, etc.

And during that time, Continental Trailways, which Greyhound acquired in 1987 owned 2,300 by itself. The other, idependent members of the National Trailways Bus System, such as Carolina, Martz, Adirondack, Pacific, Capitol,Tamiami, etc. owned another 700 or so....

Of course, there was no Megabus or other cut-rate operators in that regulated era.....

 

[Caesar La Rock]

Once again, I'm showing my age....but 1,300 in the fleet to me, is but a very thin shadow of what they had when I worked there...

Back in 1973, Greyhound Lines had almost 6,000, GLC had another 300 or so, and that is not even counting all the GL owned or partially owned, subsidiaries of the time, like Vermont Transit, TNM&O, NMT, Gray Line of NY, Walter's Transit, Carey Transportation, Brewster Transport, California Parlor Car Tours, SKGL, etc.

And during that time, Continental Trailways, which Greyhound acquired in 1987 owned 2,300 by itself. The other, idependent members of the National Trailways Bus System, such as Carolina, Martz, Adirondack, Pacific, Capitol,Tamiami, etc. owned another 700 or so....

Of course, there was no Megabus or other cut-rate operators in that regulated era.....

It was strange seeing those photos of Eagles in Greyhound's fleet. Hell what am I saying, I saw Eagles in Greyhound paint scheme with my own eyes around here.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

So, they had 769 DL3's with 75% lift-equipped, then now they have only 469, with 75% lift-equipped? That does not make sense to me, because none of the lift-equipped DL3's would've been retired or sold, since they were all rebuilt. Did they f-up with a typo? Maybe it's still "769".

280 X3-45's, again, I doubt that. They have 86000-86298 and more coming for the 86600's starting 86650. CPTDB wrongfully reported starting 86600. That's more than 300 units, not merely 280.

175 G4500's would mean they scrapped over 100 G4500's in a year. Unless they managed to sell them. Again, unlikely. Perhaps only 175 rebuilds were included. But did they really rebuild the G's that fast?

188 sounds right for the D4505's.

Yeah, all this is just not adding up.

 

[rickycourtney]

MCI D4505 - 188 (This might be too low. CPTDB has this as 236, which might be accurate. Greyhound has announced a total purchase of 261 in the trades, including some buses for BoltBus)
Prevost X3-45 - 280 (This is too low. CPTDB has this as 360, which seems accurate. Greyhound has announced a total purchase of 395 in the trades, including some buses for BoltBus)
MCI G4500 - 175 (I think this is accurate)
MCI 102DL3 - 469 (I think this is accurate, but not the part about 75% equipped with wheel-chair lifts)

In case you're curious... here's the BoltBus fleet:
0800-0832 2008 Prevost X3-45
0833-0870 2009 Prevost X3-45
86344 2010 MCI D4505
0871-0885 2011 MCI D4505
0886-0901 2013 MCI D4505

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Well, if there are 469 DL3's in Greyhound's fleet, they have to all be total rebuilds, because Greyhound #6977 was spotted carrying a banner saying "500 UNITS REBUILT - REVITALIZING AN AMERICAN ICON - GREYHOUND LINES - ABC COMPANIES". That was photographed in January 2013. Let's see, 469, plus 140 transfers to Canada, plus 40-ish from GLC's original fleet (the VIP units) and you have about 650. That is in-line with a Greyhound employee that said "650 were rebuilt, the rest are being merely refurbished".

I guess the charter units are not included or something. Or maybe there are only very few charter units. Or maybe they are selling the rest, since there are tons of DL3's for sale right now, and some of them could be ex-Greyhound. I really don't know.

Or of course, one could do an electronic count of the Greyhound roster for everything starting "1M8P" which is the DL3 VIN prefix.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I used this close-up shot to find out the seats in Greyhound's blue H3-45 #6670: https://www.flickr.com/photos/34446596@N06/12167320375/sizes/k/.

They appear to be either American 2000 or American 2004. Unfortunately, neither appear to comfortable. They appear to be intentionally narrow and don't seem to have much padding. I'm really disappointed in the offerings of American Seating, other than the 2005.

American 2000: http://www.americanseating.com/transportation/products/transportation-2000-recliner.

American 2004: http://www.americanseating.com/transportation/products/transportation-2004-recliner.

I really don't know why so many H3-45's have narrow seating while so many 102EL3's have National 4210S, the best seating offered by National: http://www.cvgrp.com/en-us/products_processes/Pages/NS4210SB10-MotorCoachRecliner.aspx.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

In case you're curious... here's the BoltBus fleet:

0800-0832 2008 Prevost X3-45

0833-0870 2009 Prevost X3-45

86344 2010 MCI D4505

0871-0885 2011 MCI D4505

0886-0901 2013 MCI D4505

Some notes regarding the fleet dedicated to the Bolt service:

0871-0885 are NOT owned by Greyhound Lines, Inc - they are owned by Peter Pan under a permanent lease to Greyhound with the stipulation that they must be used in Greyhound service.

0838 and 0883 are no longer part of the fleet - fires destroyed both buses.

0886 - owned by MCI Sales & Service under warranty to Greyhound Lines, Inc to replace 0883 which was burnt to a crisp on the NY/CT border in 2012.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

That's troubling, first time I've heard a X3-45 catching on fire, and yet another D4505 catching on fire. Greyhound #86379 and #86381 both burned. #86379 was still sitting at Denver Garage when I visited a few weeks ago, the rear half was burnt to a crisp and the front half was cannibalized for parts, the body was heavily-tagged, just a sorry sight, I have photographed it back in January 2013: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/13297870285/in/photolist-ox6TEY-mg64xB.

 

[rickycourtney]

Some notes regarding the fleet dedicated to the Bolt service:

0871-0885 are NOT owned by Greyhound Lines, Inc - they are owned by Peter Pan under a permanent lease to Greyhound with the stipulation that they must be used in Greyhound service.

0838 and 0883 are no longer part of the fleet - fires destroyed both buses.

0886 - owned by MCI Sales & Service under warranty to Greyhound Lines, Inc to replace 0883 which was burnt to a crisp on the NY/CT border in 2012.

But other than that are those numbers right?
Also how does the "under warranty" part work? Will Greyhound eventually have to give it back to MCI?

 

[rickycourtney]

Sound Transit's D4500CL coaches have American Seating model 2095 seats. They're reasonably comfortable (I would prefer more padding) especially when compared to the awful Premier and Premier LS.

Ironically Sound Transit's New Flyer DE60LFR coaches aren't as well suited for suburban routes, but they're equipped with the much very comfortable Amaya Patriot seat.

PS: I get the impression that Sound Transit just buys seats from whichever company makes the lowest bid.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Why do these bus companies keep buying these fire prone Prevost and MCI busses? They should buy a good bus like the Setra TopClass.

 

[rickycourtney]

Why do these bus companies keep buying these fire prone Prevost and MCI busses? They should buy a good bus like the Setra TopClass.

Right. Because nothing bad can ever happen to a Daimler built product?

 

[rickycourtney]

But I will give credit where credit is due... Setra builds their own seats and they offer an amazing array of options.

Check out the brochure.

Every one of those seats looks worlds more comfortable than the crap Greyhound is buying.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, but Van Hool make their own seating and it's barely better than Premier LS. The Van Hool seat is like American 2095 but narrower. American 2003 has got to be the worst.

I'm sure Amaya Torino VIP is still the best of the best, since show coaches usually have that, or Torino G Plus. Torino VIP has been around since at least 1991 and is still selling in Canada.

 

[railiner]

I used this close-up shot to find out the seats in Greyhound's blue H3-45 #6670: https://www.flickr.com/photos/34446596@N06/12167320375/sizes/k/.

They appear to be either American 2000 or American 2004. Unfortunately, neither appear to comfortable. They appear to be intentionally narrow and don't seem to have much padding. I'm really disappointed in the offerings of American Seating, other than the 2005.

American 2000: http://www.americanseating.com/transportation/products/transportation-2000-recliner.

American 2004: http://www.americanseating.com/transportation/products/transportation-2004-recliner.

I really don't know why so many H3-45's have narrow seating while so many 102EL3's have National 4210S, the best seating offered by National: http://www.cvgrp.com/en-us/products_processes/Pages/NS4210SB10-MotorCoachRecliner.aspx.

Thanks for those links....in looking thru National's products, it appears that the model we have in our pre-2009 H's, are the model 4210A.....I find them more comfortable than any seat that has come in any of our later model's....despite the narrower tops....

 

[railiner]

Why do these bus companies keep buying these fire prone Prevost and MCI busses? They should buy a good bus like the Setra TopClass.

Right. Because nothing bad can ever happen to a Daimler built product?

Ouch!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

-------

Thanks for those links....in looking thru National's products, it appears that the model we have in our pre-2009 H's, are the model 4210A.....I find them more comfortable than any seat that has come in any of our later model's....despite the narrower tops....

4210A or 4210S? There's also the 4209 which I've found nothing on. I know the 4210S shot shows winged headrests, but they also have rounded headrests.

Edit: Guess what? I've uploaded my first bus video to YouTube. Just 5:21 long, so please check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfXEpnQOaU0.

 

[rickycourtney]

Yeah, but Van Hool make their own seating and it's barely better than Premier LS. The Van Hool seat is like American 2095 but narrower. American 2003 has got to be the worst.

I'm sure Amaya Torino VIP is still the best of the best, since show coaches usually have that, or Torino G Plus. Torino VIP has been around since at least 1991 and is still selling in Canada.

I have to disagree. For all of Van Hool's problems... seats aren't one of them. Amaya's A2-TEN and Torino seats are better... but Van Hool's "body line" seats are very comfortable for what I assume is a cheaper seat. It's worlds better than the horrible Premier LS seats Greyhound uses (and without the need for a pillow).

I don't think you gave Setra's seats a fair shake.

The Voyage Plus seats look great IMHO and I'm impressed by how customizable they are. You have several options for armrests, tray tables, footrests, Amtrak style legrests and you can even order them with individual TV's (something I suggest Greyhound avoid).

 

[railiner]

The Van Hool proprietary seats, are defintely better than those Premier's.... Besides being ergonomically more comfortable to sit in, they have more 'shin clearance' to slide your legs under.....

And due to the Van Hools design advantage over the MCI and Prevost, can offer more leg room with the same amount of seat rows, account of using the space clear to the very back of the coach.

 

[railiner]

-------

Thanks for those links....in looking thru National's products, it appears that the model we have in our pre-2009 H's, are the model 4210A.....I find them more comfortable than any seat that has come in any of our later model's....despite the narrower tops....

4210A or 4210S? There's also the 4209 which I've found nothing on. I know the 4210S shot shows winged headrests, but they also have rounded headrests.

Edit: Guess what? I've uploaded my first bus video to YouTube. Just 5:21 long, so please check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfXEpnQOaU0.

Our's do not have seatbelts... those came with the miserable Premier's in our 2009 model's....

*

The video is okay, but I would have liked a bit of scanning to show the interior of the coach, along with a shot thru the windshield....

 

[Green Maned Lion]

That S-Class is a works self driving prototype.

And pray tell, what the heck is a sight that calls itself heavy cherry? I am so not interested in finding out on my own.

 

[rickycourtney]

That S-Class is a works self driving prototype.

Cause it has cruise control that can steer and keep a constant distance? That's neat. My mom's Prius can do the same thing for half as much money (and that doesn't include the lower fuel and maintenance costs).

And pray tell, what the heck is a sight that calls itself heavy cherry? I am so not interested in finding out on my own.

No clue. Used google image search to find them. Went back and looked. Seems like an auto trader for heavy vehicles and machinery.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The Prius is NOT capable of full autonomy; I.e. Enter the car, program a destination, sit back and relax. That S-class is. Toyota has not been working on anything beyond self-park and the fairly standard distance cruise control.

But then, very few people appreciate that basically every Toyota "innovation" has either been a gimmick, or an implementation of an older idea. Toyota has never sent a technologically innovative product to this country, save for the insanely flawed and almost laughable first generation Prius.

In fact, they are worse run, as a company, then GM ever was. Scions crash and burn after it's initial success is an illustrative example of that. Lexus's inability to actually tap the sports sedan and luxury sedan markets long term is also a laughable and illustrative example.

Toyota exemplifies all of the stupidly thought out arrogance that caused Japan's economy to crash and burn.