Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[rickycourtney]

The other reason they don't like them is that they come at additional expense.

They look cleaner and I would think they are safer in an accident or an abrupt maneuver.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, they cost a bit more but only a bit more. Like a few thousand dollars. Not much at all. A new pair of Amaya seats costs a thousand and a new pair of Nationals even more.

Greyhound Canada ordered them for a long time but now they aren't ordering anything.

I heard the expenses of passengers forgetting items in them was far higher than the additional cost of installing them. In that apparently, passengers forgetting items inside the bus are to be paid for them. At this point, I don't really know.

Oh yeah, how's the Series 50 compared to 6V92TA? The late-model MC-12s had the Series 50 but most of them had 6V92TAs. Some drivers prefer the Series 50 but most seem to prefer the 6V92TA. I ask because I saw one of those in Las Vegas (a 1995 MC-12 with the 6V92TA) and the owner told me the engine's blown and said four-strokes are better. That's how I got to poke around and found the window elevation to be 34" and the National seats to be comfortable. Open parcel racks that looked the same as the 96A3's open version. Has the manual door and the manual roll sign.

 

[rickycourtney]

I don't know why bus operators would be responsible for luggage left in overhead bins... the passengers brought that luggage onboard, so it's their responsibility.

That's in contrast to checked luggage where passengers surrender their baggage to the operator for transportation.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Which leads up to the problem of Greyhound's checked baggage transferring. Greyhound says they are not responsible for transferring any baggage, including checked baggage, and that passengers must do it by themselves. But it's apparent that about half of all Greyhound complaints right now involve losing baggage. Most people simply complaint that "Greyhound lose my bags".

I'm assuming these people are talking about checked baggage. They must have transferred buses and forgotten to transfer their baggage. They must have expected Greyhound baggage handler to do it, obviously not going to happen. Drivers now increasingly make announcements to remind passengers, but it's inconsistent and even when the driver does it, there's no guarantee the passengers will all pay attention, especially if they're texting or have headphones on.

Then you have problems with Greyhound's baggage unloading that many passengers fail to understand. Greyhound baggage handlers unload baggage from the cargo hold and place them by the bus. During this time, the passengers are supposed to line up and wait with their claim tickets in hand ready to claim the baggage after the handlers are done unloading. But many passengers make the mistake of rushing baggage handlers right after they get off the bus, looking for their bags. This situation could easily cause theft and that's why baggage handlers are told to resist any passenger's advances until he's done unloading the bags and is able to keep an eye on things.

That's when many passengers get mad and complain to Greyhound about rude and aggressive baggage handlers. Most fail to understand that the handlers get highly agitated when passengers try to actively look for their bags and that the handlers are going to, understandably, tell those passengers to "back the f--k off".

So if you're riding Greyhound, it's best not to approach baggage handlers or check for your bags at an intermediate stop because that increases the chance of getting into a confrontation which in turn increases the chance of you losing your bags.

 

[rickycourtney]

Sounds like Greyhound has a pretty serious customer service issue when it comes to baggage handling. I can't think of a reason it would ever be appropriate to tell a paying customer to "back the fu*k off." That's horrible customer service and it's bad that the customers are put in such a confusing situation.

Do the baggage handlers actually check the claim checks?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Yeah, they do, or at least they're supposed to. It would be the only way to reliably prevent theft. But then that causes the problem of people rushing for their bags while the baggage handler tried to fend them off and hold them back. This is what causes the confrontation between passengers and baggage handlers. When passengers rush for their bags, handlers will often use verbal aggression to get passengers in line, but the passengers don't understand what's going on and nobody is really there to tell them what to do.

Drivers sometimes tell passengers to wait by the side of the bus with claim tickets until the baggage handler has finished unloading, but passengers always keep rushing for bags and getting into clashes with handlers. Then there's other passengers that are afraid Greyhound will "lose" their bags and go out to check on their bags in the cargo hold during major intermediate stops. Some of these people will try to open the hatches by themselves or poke into hatches already open, since they often don't know which hold their bag is in after giving it to the handler for loading at the origin. Baggage handlers aren't supposed to let people do this because it could cause theft. This leads to more confrontations.

Obviously, confrontations and lost baggage are bad things and confusion about checked baggage is a major problem Greyhound needs to solve. Their ticket envelopes say clearly that passengers must transfer their own bags and the bags won't be transferred for them. But most passengers don't bother to read everything on their tickets especially not the ticket envelopes.

At Bakersfield when I was transferring, passengers rushed the handler and the handler waved his hands in despair yelling basically, "Stay back! Stay back! Go behind the fence! Stay behind the fence! You've got to wait! Wait, wait, wait! Stay back!"

But passengers kept trying to grab their bags as soon as they came out (of the cargo hold) and the handler, who was a big guy, ended up having to bear down on them, yelling all the time, and, thankfully, managed to force them back behind the fence without pushing, shoving, or yelling expletives. But those passengers are now going to go everywhere and complain about Greyhound's rude baggage handler that was yelling in their faces when they tried to get their bags. That's a complaint I've read too many times always.

I think one way to solve this problem would be to have some kind of channel that directs the flow of passengers into the station once they get off the bus, kind of like in airports with the jetways, then having the baggage put in a claim area inside the station. But then that would require lots of space and might simply cause new problems.

 

[rickycourtney]

Another option is that the baggage handlers could unload the baggage from the drivers side, place them onto a cart and when it's full, wheel our drive it over to a baggage claim area. That's a variant of what Amtrak does at smaller stations that offer checked baggage service (like Merced).

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The problems I see with that are money and space. There's probably not enough space around the parked motorcoaches to maneuver carts. There's no platform like Amtrak has. And there's thing in the way, like refueling hoses.

For example, look at Reno: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/15599210798/in/photostream/.

That's a D4505 parked there. There's the Silver State Van Hool I rode off to the side. In between is another bay that can accommodate another motorcoach. There's barely any space in between and then there's the red support and the refueling hoses. If you have passengers getting off from another vehicle, that will cause utter chaos if you then try to run a cart through there.

To keep things in order would require some way to channel the passengers which has its own problems.

 

[rickycourtney]

Then perhaps the answer is simply better communication and signage at stations.

Have a customer service agent out at the side of the bus to direct the crowds, give instructions and reassure passengers. That would free up the baggage handlers to focus on doing their job and hopefully do it faster.

It would also be easy and cheap to get some of those retractible barriers and just rope off the area between the front door of the bus and the first baggage bay. That would keep passengers out of the area as the baggage handlers did their job.

Also I'm really surprised that Greyhound doesn't have standardized announcements for drivers to give, instructing passengers on what they can expect when they arrive at the station. On Amtrak the announcements are scripted for almost every scenarios. For example, here's the standard arrival announcement:

Ladies and gentlemen, in 10 minutes we will be arriving in (location, with motorcoach connections to locations).

Please check around your seat and the overhead luggage rack for your personal possessions. Red Caps will be on the platform to assist you with your luggage. For passengers with checked luggage, it takes approximately (number) minutes for your baggage to be available. You may pick up your checked luggage at (location in the station).

We ask that you watch your step when leaving the train.

Welcome to (location), and on behalf of our entire crew, thank you for choosing Amtrak.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I'm glad that Greyhound put a Customer Service Rep at Las Vegas to help with directing passengers, though it appears that Rep was the terminal manager, not a dedicated rep which would have cost a lot more wage-wise. That;s actually a good idea, I think. At Denver there was no rep and the drivers had to help out extra. The drivers out of Denver are generally willing to go above and beyond since they generally drive long-distance routes that have fixed daily schedules and no turn-and-burns.

Misty spotted #7149, a Blue G, in Saint Louis today, and I had seen it on Tuesday in Reno, today is Friday. So it must have gone to Denver and taken at least a 24-hour rest before departing on its next run. Start opposite of the turn-and-burns.

The Orange Belt driver didn't make any announcements when departing, BTW. Yeah, I guess jerks don't like to talk.

So, I found some Greyhound bus videoes on YouTube. Want to see them?

Here's a "Greyhound" video that actually depicts a Burlington Trailways brand-new Restyled J4500. It's seen plain-white and has Amaya A2-TEN seating: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iNzsYEcu_o.

And big LCD flat-screen TVs!

Here's the follow-up which involves a 102DL3 running Chicago-Minneapolis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UZEQDxZN_8.

Here's a Greyhound bus driver's channel that has many videoes about life on the road driving Greyhound buses: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC97v77rrWfHW2wX-3YAxYxQ.

Here's an interesting video taken in Tucson that shows an unknown model with Patriot PT seating, but it's not a 102DL3 since it has the red handle rather than a window escape bar. Do you think it's a Blue G? A Van Hool? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srCT6MNiIDw.

And oh yeah, here's a video of a fight on Greyhound, it's apparently a second-hand J4500 with American Seating 2003: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGOFrwGxoMk.

Would really appreciate help finding out what the last two models are. I've never heard of the G4500 having Patriot PT so I was surprised to see it in that coach, if it's a Blue G. Could be a Blue Van Hool or even a Blue Viaggio, considering the vid was taken in Tucson.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Aw man you know what someone posted on GTE back in 2008?

This:
"There's not much you can do with the G models at this point.

Send them to Afghanistan and let the Taliban holdouts use them for
target practice. God only knows that the ones in service now aren't
roadworthy. For sure the Scotts aren't at all impressed with them.

As soon as FirstGroup can get enough Prevosts in the fleet, the "G"
will be phased out, as will the remaining MC-12's.

Count on it."

Count on it? Well that didn't work. Many of them have now been turned into Blue G's and run alongside Prevosts.

 

[rickycourtney]

Over on the main "Amtrak Rail Discussion" thread there's word that Greyhound and Amtrak will be shacking up together in San Francisco.

Two slips at the Temporary Transbay Terminal will now be dedicated to Amtrak Thruway Motorcoach routes and Amtrak will offer ticketing and baggage services inside the station building currently used by Greyhound.

I encourage you to read the thread and comment.

 

[railiner]

Over on the main "Amtrak Rail Discussion" thread there's word that Greyhound and Amtrak will be shacking up together in San Francisco.

Two slips at the Temporary Transbay Terminal will now be dedicated to Amtrak Thruway Motorcoach routes and Amtrak will offer ticketing and baggage services inside the station building currently used by Greyhound.

I encourage you to read the thread and comment.

Thanks for the tip....I put my two and a half cents in......

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I saw this on Google Street View and thought I had to share: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7843897,-96.8125939,3a,15.7y,255.21h,74.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDKzJiWJJgQMJCT9pDGZVDw!2e0.

That was taken in October 2012, at the height of 102DL3 rebuilds. You can see a 102DL3 rolling out of the shop freshly rebuilt and painted blue, the decals having not been applied yet. Below it you can clearly see a White G4500 being paint blue.

Oh yeah, you guys remember Greyhound's Funkmaster Flex MC-12? That was spotted by Google Maps sitting in Dallas in June 2014. Now off-roster.

Edit: You guys see this? https://www.google.com/maps/@34.0349094,-118.2375425,3a,21.8y,192.63h,83.47t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svQLrjdK7DGhDDRsxy4EwcQ!2e0. That's an Americanos G4500 with the engine hatch open, and it has a YELLOW engine! That's definitely a CAT, not a Detroit which was standard in the G4500. That's a rare catch, one with the CAT C12 12L 410hp.

 

[rickycourtney]

The San Francisco temporary transbay terminal is a very unique place.

The station was built using Greyhounds new standard station design (probably to speed up construction) but it's not owned by Greyhound.

Things will likely change quite a bit with Amtrak Thruway moving in. The idea of wanding every passenger probably won't fly. I'm also wondering if there will be separate waiting areas for each carrier? Is there already a separate waiting area for BoltBus or Greyhound Express passengers? I'm also curious where Amtrak's ticketing and baggage areas will go. Are there unused counters or will Greyhound be forced to reduce the amount of space they use?

John do you have any pictures of the inside of the station on your Flickr site? I'd be curious to see it.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Well I can't take pictures in the SFD station. Sorry. Remember, SFD is held down by 24-hour security guarding. And Greyhound has a photography ban. If you take photos of Greyhound and get caught by a security guard, it's not worth it. I took pictures in Sacramento, got caught by security, and learned never to take pictures in the presence of Greyhound Security again. But I can still take pictures in Sacramento, just only from inside the bus or from the street. 'Cause the driver usually don't care about you taking a shot of a bus since he drives them every day anyway (except for that Orange Belt jerk!).

But since I've been there a lot, I can definitely describe it well which I have already done in the other thread. But yes, everybody that goes into the waiting area MUST be patted down and ticket-checked unless you can sneak past the security guard which is a BAD idea. The ticket counter is not in the waiting area. There's only one ticket counter. There's only one waiting area. Never seen BoltBus boarding or their passengers at SFD though. NO space for a baggage area.

Basically, if Amtrak wants to go into that tiny station building, BAD idea. OTOH, there's plenty of bus space at Transbay, so Amtrak just needs to find another building to squeeze into. It's barely larger than the Seattle station building. This seems like a joke to me.

Right now I'm trying to find out about the Dallas-Los Angeles, Dallas-Denver, and Denver-El Paso routes. Any intel would be appreciated. Also trying to find out where the heck Greyhound's DL3s are in California. I saw some in Los Angeles Maintenance Center on Google Street View, but failed to see any in person after riding #6909 many months ago. Did you go to Greyhound's Centennial Tour when it passed through SEA last weekend? I haven't caught it yet but I might catch it in Los Angeles right before Christmas.

 

[rickycourtney]

The lease is signed and there's no room on that lot for another building. So Amtrak will be moving into that building, no matter how bad of an idea it is.

So I'm guessing either Greyhound's ticket counter will be split with Amtrak's, or they will have to build a new one.

I highly doubt that Amtrak would allow any security guard to physically pat down passengers, but I think they wouldn't mind checking tickets before allowing passengers to occupy seats in a waiting area (that is what's done at LA Union Station).

I'm sure there is some sort of a baggage facility since there is GPX service from San Francisco. I'm sure part of that room will now be dedicated to storing checked baggage for Amtrak passengers.

The good news for you is that Amtrak has no ban on photography, that means once they move in you'll likely be allowed to take photos inside the station.

The other good news is that Amtrak and Greyhound do have quite a few success stories working out of the same building, St Louis is a good example. Also Vancouver, BC is a really great example of an intermodal station, VIA Rail, Amtrak, Greyhound, BoltBus, Cantrail and Pacific Coach Lines all share the same station and waiting room!

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Hmm, as long as Greyhound still has a security guard there, then NO photography or else I get busted. Unless Greyhound lays off the security guard. If Amtrak moves in I might be able to take pictures of the station but what I really want to snap are the buses and as long as there's Greyhound Security, it's very difficult for me to sneak photos in, though in Las Vegas I did commit to a daring run when I snapped a photo of #86517 at the gate while the security guard was outside facing the street and no ticket agent was looking.

I'm sick and tired of this. If I go to Los Angeles and want to photoshoot the Greyhound Maintenance Center, I'll need some real advice. I could stroll around and try to take pictures inconspicuously but I might get caught. I could take covert photography but I'm not sure how to hide my camera that well and if caught, it would just make me seem more suspicious. If I ask a friendly driver with spare time to take me on a quick tour, that'll get me in no trouble but I'll have to find that driver. If I try to shoot from the street, my shots will be poor like when I tried at Las Vegas, which resulted in terrible blurs. I only got a few good shots of Greyhound in Las Vegas.

 

[rickycourtney]

I suggest reading this article. It's a nice briefing on media law.

As I understand it from my Media Law classes (and that nice refresher): if you can see it while standing on public property (like a sidewalk of a public street), you can legally photograph it.

Now here's my big warning... I wouldn't suggest angering a security guard (even on public property), if you need travel later that day.

Also I echo the author of that article in saying I am not a lawyer and this should not be taken as legal advice.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Well damn it, I shouldn't have delete my photographs when the Orange Belt driver told me to then! But if I hadn't, she probably would have kicked me off the bus.

Anyway, I caught this White D4505 at Fresno: https://www.flickr.com/photos/95851032@N07/15822718676/.

Have you seen them before? These run a really awkward route, Fresno-Mexicali overnight daily. I have no idea what that's about, I'm guessing it's targeting Mexicans that work in Fresno?

So, at this point, I'm not sure what to do about photography at Los Angeles. There's not going to be any security at the Los Angeles Maintenance Center. There's going to be a lot of mechanics there, maybe a few drivers too. No security guards. I photographed at Denver Maintenance Center with minimal difficulty but now what I am going to do in Los Angeles?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Ricky, remember how I sent complaints to Orange Belt and Silver State a week ago. It's Saturday today and I've still gotten no response. I've pretty much given up on my hopes of getting a response. It was bad enough that Orange Belt and Silver State were poorly-run operations, it's even worse that they have all those problems yet refuse to respond, explain, apologize, or anything.

This sucks, this really, really, sucks. I guess Orange Belt and Silver State will go on being horrible operations. Sooner or later, they'll be the ones that go bankrupt or get shut down by the FMCSA for deferring maintenance. If there was a silver of chance that I would ride one of them again, considering how they serve niche routes, now that's gone; I'm never riding them again, and I'm going to tell everybody else not to ride them.

I know a lot of people complain about Greyhound on Facebook, and they get a response. I got nothing from Orange Belt and Silver State and both of them are worse than Greyhound.

Ricky, since you're a journalist, may I ask you if Channing Street, Lawrence Street, Decatur Street, and East 7th Place in Los Angeles are public streets? Those streets run through the Greyhound Maintenance Center and if they are public streets I should have no trouble with photography.

 

[tp49]

Google Street View is your friend. Yes, they are public streets.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Then that's very good, I'll be able to do it. Now I just hope one of them mechanics won't come over to me and tell me to stop. In that case I'll be forced to retort that I'm on a public street.

So, everywhere that there is Google Street View is a public street?

Now, I need to be sure those are public streets and I'll have to be ready to respond if they try to stop me.

Oh yeah, here's the Torino G's brochure from 4one; it says the new seat belt design is great for freeing passengers of shoulder discomfort: http://www.4one.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Torino-G.pdf.

 

[railiner]

I still don't get what this paranoia about photo's is all about....

Unless, of course, you are embarassed about your appearance, or your actions....

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

The problem is, that photography ban is currently official Greyhound policy. So now all Greyhound employees need to do as a motive for stopping photography is, "You can't take pictures of Greyhound buses."

Sucks, I know, but what the heck am I going to do?

At this point I might just have to say, "I'm taking pictures from a public street."

But then if I have to ride Greyhound it would be dumb to challenge them like this. Even if the mechanics from the Maintenance Center probably aren't going to see me in the station, there's drivers that may see me taking pictures and try to stop me.

I'll use Street View to gain intel on photography angles and see what I can do from where. I tried it with Denver but I'll do it better this time so that I get the best shots and get quality over quantity.

Edit: Another photo album found on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/asterisktom/sets/72157646051951800.