Greyhound seats and fleet questions

[Swadian Hardcore]

I haven't heard anything about Greyhound right now. Lots of rumors and nothing concrete. Somebody said Greyhound would close all Maintenance Centers and just use MCI and Prevost Service Centers. Someone else said Bolt was using leased Van Hools in the PNW as another Van Hool experiment by Greyhound. Someone else said Greyhound was dropping MCI and Prevost in favor of cheaper Van Hools and some kind of Brazilian bus. Same guy said Greyhound was going to buy the TD925. Someone else said Greyhound's going to order buses in 2015 and are shopping around.

Nothing sounds concrete and nothing has materialized. Everything sounds like a joke right now.

Other than that H3-45, see anything else up there? Still no Bolt Van Hools, right?

 

[rickycourtney]

That's the thing eTicketing isn't a rumor... I used the beta version on a BoltBus trip over the summer. It seemed to work perfectly at the time, especially compared to my print at home ticketing experience earlier in the day on Greyhound.

I haven't seen any Van Hool's on BoltBus. Over the weekend I saw a couple X3-45s and one of the newer D4505s that was added to the fleet here in the PNW at some point last year.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Then I don't know. Maybe they're still testing it.

Other than the H3-45s, which Greyhounds have you seen in Seattle recently? I'm guessing more Blue G's?

I found out that before GLC ordered the VIPs, they used Nationals with winged headrests. Seems like GLC has always been obsessed with winged headrests, every GLC original unit has had them since at least 1989.

 

[rickycourtney]

I kinda figured that they might do a trial of eTicketing on a busy Greyhound route, like the Greyhound Express between Dallas and Houston. That's also the other market where the tested the BLUE Entertainment/Wi-Fi system. It's a shame that hasn't been rolled out nationwide yet. I was extremely impressed with that system.

I've mostly seen blue G4500s at the Seattle station, but I also see the occasional D4505 and the H3-45 (which looks great in the blue livery!) It's been a long time since I've seen a white G4500. The last time I can remember is the week after they moved to the new station in SoDo and they were using it as a free shuttle for passengers between the two stations.

 

[rickycourtney]

Over on CPTDB, it's been reported that Horizon Coach Lines (what's left if it) is going out of business at the end of the year. It's not entirely surprising. They've been limping wounded the last few years.

Here in Seattle they shuttered most of the operation last year but they held a small part together to complete their contracts with the cruise lines (saw plenty of Horizon Coach Line J4500 buses parked out in front of the Seattle Art Museum this summer).

So why does this belong on a Greyhound thread? Well as I've said before, Greyhound no longer owns a maintenance facility here in Seattle. They actually just lease space from Horizon Coach Lines (and I assume pay for their mechanics and cleaners to do light maintenance). Greyhound could end up buying the maintenance facility (I'm sure Horizon Coach Lines will be having a fire sale of sorts) or they will have to find another local operator to contact with for storage and maintenance.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

You won't believe what I saw in San Francisco today. A plain-white D4505 with the entire front bumper GONE! Says how bad these charter companies are these days. Deplorable!

Today's 8309 was D4505 #86536. Surprisingly, the seats didn't sag that much. We drove through a snowstorm around the summit. A pickup had spun out and gotten stuck. There was also pouring rain after the snowstorm all the way to SFD. We got in 30 minutes late.

Saw a single Americanos G4500 in Oakland. There's always an Americanos there around midday. Everything else was a D4505. A bus jam occurred when three D4505s arrived at the same time right as we were pulling out of Oakland. One of them was terrible #86544.

Every run I saw today was sold out. Need to get there early tomorrow to get a good seat. Dumbfounded about the D4505 right now. This one was actually not too bad in seating, but it did have big layers of dust around the windows, a normal D4505 phenomenon.

Still shocked at the bumper-less charter D4505.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

Over on CPTDB, it's been reported that Horizon Coach Lines (what's left if it) is going out of business at the end of the year. It's not entirely surprising. They've been limping wounded the last few years.

Here in Seattle they shuttered most of the operation last year but they held a small part together to complete their contracts with the cruise lines (saw plenty of Horizon Coach Line J4500 buses parked out in front of the Seattle Art Museum this summer).

So why does this belong on a Greyhound thread? Well as I've said before, Greyhound no longer owns a maintenance facility here in Seattle. They actually just lease space from Horizon Coach Lines (and I assume pay for their mechanics and cleaners to do light maintenance). Greyhound could end up buying the maintenance facility (I'm sure Horizon Coach Lines will be having a fire sale of sorts) or they will have to find another local operator to contact with for storage and maintenance.

Yes, Mr. Sherman of TMS (the company that owns Horizon), is refocusing his efforts on his highly successful event transportation business. Horizon was built around these events, not for the purposes of general charter and contract.

While they do just lease space from Horizon, Greyhound employs their own mechanics and cleaners and has a shop foreman in Seattle. Dispatch is conducted at the terminal. It's more likely that they would purchase the property than partner with a local op such as MTR Western.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

I kinda figured that they might do a trial of eTicketing on a busy Greyhound route, like the Greyhound Express between Dallas and Houston. That's also the other market where the tested the BLUE Entertainment/Wi-Fi system. It's a shame that hasn't been rolled out nationwide yet. I was extremely impressed with that system.

There are a lot of steps needed to in order to roll the system out nationwide. The intial tests though were very positive...

 

[metrolinecoach111]

I haven't seen any Van Hool's on BoltBus. Over the weekend I saw a couple X3-45s and one of the newer D4505s that was added to the fleet here in the PNW at some point last year.

No Van Hools (confirmed) at the Black & Orange.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Since I'm completely unable to fall asleep, I'll just say that at Greyhound San Francisco today, there was an Amador EL3 that appeared to be running a Greyhound overload charter.

 

[rickycourtney]

Yes, Mr. Sherman of TMS (the company that owns Horizon), is refocusing his efforts on his highly successful event transportation business. Horizon was built around these events, not for the purposes of general charter and contract.

That matches up with what I've heard. Specializing in event transportation seems like a strange niche business to me. The nice part about Cruise contracts is that while it's seasonal, it's consistent (you do the same number of trips, on the same day, week after week).

While they do just lease space from Horizon, Greyhound employs their own mechanics and cleaners and has a shop foreman in Seattle. Dispatch is conducted at the terminal. It's more likely that they would purchase the property than partner with a local op such as MTR Western.

I also figured that it might be an arrangement like that, Greyhound's people working out of a leased space.I also imagine that Greyhound will purchase the facility, if they get a good deal on it, but it's going to be overkill for what they need. As far as I can tell, Greyhound stores about a dozen buses at the facility and only does light/preventative maintenance here in Seattle.

There are a lot of steps needed to in order to roll the system out nationwide. The intial tests though were very positive...

I assume your talking about eTicketing and not the BLUE system. But with either system, that's good news.

 

[rickycourtney]

You won't believe what I saw in San Francisco today. A plain-white D4505 with the entire front bumper GONE! Says how bad these charter companies are these days. Deplorable!

Today's 8309 was D4505 #86536. Surprisingly, the seats didn't sag that much. We drove through a snowstorm around the summit. A pickup had spun out and gotten stuck. There was also pouring rain after the snowstorm all the way to SFD. We got in 30 minutes late.

Saw a single Americanos G4500 in Oakland. There's always an Americanos there around midday. Everything else was a D4505. A bus jam occurred when three D4505s arrived at the same time right as we were pulling out of Oakland. One of them was terrible #86544.

Every run I saw today was sold out. Need to get there early tomorrow to get a good seat. Dumbfounded about the D4505 right now. This one was actually not too bad in seating, but it did have big layers of dust around the windows, a normal D4505 phenomenon.

Still shocked at the bumper-less charter D4505.

I'm equally shocked that you found a charter operator that owns a D4505.

I'm not shocked that every trip is sold out, it is one of the busiest travel weekends of the entire year. Greyhound sent out a news release saying that they expect more than a million passengers over the holiday travel period.

It will be interesting to see what happens at the Temporary Transbay Terminal when Amtrak moves in next year. I expect it to be even more crowded out in the bus bays and probably in the terminal too.

Hope your trip down "the 101" goes well today.

Let me know if you have any last minute questions about Southern California.

 

[metrolinecoach111]

Yes, Mr. Sherman of TMS (the company that owns Horizon), is refocusing his efforts on his highly successful event transportation business. Horizon was built around these events, not for the purposes of general charter and contract.

That matches up with what I've heard. Specializing in event transportation seems like a strange niche business to me. The nice part about Cruise contracts is that while it's seasonal, it's consistent (you do the same number of trips, on the same day, week after week).

Their business model is indeed, very interesting and extremely successful. They primarily work a bunch of seasonal events (concerts and music festivals) and conventions. These jobs carry anywhere from 1000-100,000 people over the course of a few days and they work with every available operator to coordinate. The clients pay them to plan, manage and facilitate the services. The model works when you are infrastructure-light, as you can move from job to job easily. Aside from that, they are one of the few authorized vendors for the US Government to provide disaster relief transportation. Anytime you hear about evacuations, they are the ones coordinating the ground effort.

When they purchased the majority of companies in the now bankrupt Coach America group, they wanted to diversify and build out the general contracts on the corporate end. But when they had those event jobs, the margins were weighed down by the fact that they had infrastructure in place. They also had to compete with the same people they already partnered with and there's a limit to the amount of work available....

With the cruise ship work, it's only good if you have the right mix to complement the work. Same days, same number of buses, a steady margin, but what do they do the other days of the week? For companies like Academy (everywhere in the East), and Mears and Escot in Florida, they work because they have corporate and charter contracts to make the cruise contract worthwhile and profitable.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Rode white DL3 #60556 on 6825 today. Had the upgraded interior and LEDs. Wi-Fi worked fine. Comfortable Patriot PTs, two pairs of Gaudis in the very back. Was Greyhound #6523.

 

[rickycourtney]

What are gaudis?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

They're old blockly FAINSAs. They're basically old-style Greyhound seats. This unit, originally #6523, would have originally had 55 Gaudis. Also, it still has no driver shield and it has a single old TV in the front on the right side. No video system so the TV is useless. It's definitely the weirdest bus I've ridden. Mixed seats, old TV, transferred to Americanos and back, blue interior with white exterior, even has wall power outlets, but it's a white bus! And all the amenities were working.

 

[Caesar La Rock]

You won't believe what I saw in San Francisco today. A plain-white D4505 with the entire front bumper GONE! Says how bad these charter companies are these days. Deplorable!

Today's 8309 was D4505 #86536. Surprisingly, the seats didn't sag that much. We drove through a snowstorm around the summit. A pickup had spun out and gotten stuck. There was also pouring rain after the snowstorm all the way to SFD. We got in 30 minutes late.

Saw a single Americanos G4500 in Oakland. There's always an Americanos there around midday. Everything else was a D4505. A bus jam occurred when three D4505s arrived at the same time right as we were pulling out of Oakland. One of them was terrible #86544.

Every run I saw today was sold out. Need to get there early tomorrow to get a good seat. Dumbfounded about the D4505 right now. This one was actually not too bad in seating, but it did have big layers of dust around the windows, a normal D4505 phenomenon.

Still shocked at the bumper-less charter D4505.

I'm equally shocked that you found a charter operator that owns a D4505.

There are some that do own D4505s down here. Just not that many compared to the other MCI coaches, Van Hools, Setras, Temsas, and Prevosts.

 

[rickycourtney]

There are some that do own D4505s down here. Just not that many compared to the other MCI coaches, Van Hools, Setras, Temsas, and Prevosts.

That's why I meant it as a joke.

 

[rickycourtney]

I realize there is a lot of behind the scenes work that needs to happen to make eTicketing work.

I guess my judgement was somewhat clouded by my experience with Amtrak. The San Joaquin trains which I used to ride a lot were a test market for the system. eTickets were issued starting in April 2012 and the system was rolled out nationwide in August 2012. What I didn't realize was that Amtrak had already done a successful "alpha test" on the Downeaster trains in November 2011.

Interestingly Greyhound did send out a news release earlier this month saying it is modernizing its IT infrastructure to enable yield management and dynamic pricing. I have a feeling that this has something to do with eTicketing.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I wouldn't have expected this, but my bus to Sacramento overnight, Schedule 1446, was yet again, a DL3. It's another white one, #60316 ex-Americanos, second section. First section was D4505 #86522. I was the first guy on the second section, so I got my favorite seat. No boarding numbers used, though I saw it being used in Los Angeles.

This DL3 has FAINSA Gaudi seats, which were comfortable and I got much better sleep than on the new buses.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

Currently on #86352, D4505 on Sked 8302 to Reno. Not very comfortable, but oh well.

 

[rickycourtney]

How was the trip to Southern California?

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

I think Los Angeles is great except for the suspicious people walking around on the streets. I didn't have enough time to really enjoy the attractions, so I'll have to return in the future. Lots of my plans got curbed due to fatigue and poor planning.

Los Angeles actually has an awesome Greyhound terminal. Very clean and spacious; the restrooms were much better than the Sacramento restrooms, and Sacramento is even considered one of the best terminals. Yes, the LAD terminal is in a bad area, but it's a great terminal, better than the airport, even.

The ride on #86352 was quite horrible. The driver got lost in Truckee and took us around in circles. He wasn't a very good driver and was hard on the steering wheel and the brakes, making the ride rougher than it had to be. The vehicle itself was in good condition, unlike #86307 which was in bad condition, but the seats were falling apart. The armrests were chipped, the covers were cracked and falling off, and the fabric seat backs were coated with dust. The air inside #86352 was stuffy, almost suffocating. I felt like riding a White G or worse.

#86352 actually didn't have a coating of dust along the top, like you saw in those Facebook photos. #86536, the bus I took outbound to SFD, did have that coating of dust, but it was better than #86352 in pretty much everything. Of course, the DL3s beat both of them, being more spacious inside, having much more comfortable seat, and having better air quality. The DL3s also went faster. #60316 is an awesome bus, really smooth-riding and fast. #60556 was a bit bumpier, though it could have been the difference in roads, since I rode #60556 on US 101 and #60316 on I-5. #60556 did have better seating, Patriot PT instead of Gaudi.

I'm still surprised by how well I slept on #60316 and how bad #86352 subsequently was. The latter was also 1 hour late and I almost got sick after dozing off and smacking my head onto the window air vents as the inexperienced driver fumbled around.

 

[rickycourtney]

It's actually not all that strange that those old Americanos DL3s were out for the holidays.

Americanos just got a bunch of X3-45s back in 2012, after that I assume they retired older buses like this DL3s to become backup buses. It only makes since that Greyhound put these buses out on the road now, their busiest time of the year.

Keeping those buses in reserve makes a lot of since. They have leather seats, power outlets and Wi-Fi. All the amenities passengers expect and since its plain white it can run on Greyhound, BoltBus or Americanos.

Now that being said, I hope Greyhound got rid of those G4500s in the Americanos livery. The ones I saw were always amongst the worst buses out on the road (including the one that had the engine hatch wide open while going up I-5).

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

They didn't get rid of the Americanos G4500s. They're still running around on the non-Express Americanos schedules alongside the few white D4505s and J4500s. The Express Americanos schedules seem to get Blue DL3s, X3-45s, or Greyhound D4505s.

Regarding E-Ticketing, all I know is that, when using the ticket kiosks for Will Call, it give the option "Will Call / E-Ticketing" as if they are the same thing.

I wish Greyhound would scrap those Americanos G4500s and use the White DL3s instead. I see those G4500s more often than the White DL3s.