Southwest Chief discussion Q4 2023 - 2024

[railiner]

I assume that the so-called “base sleeper” on multi-sleeper trains being the last one to be cut for operational reasons, is because it is the first one to be sold, and therefore those holding reservations the longest in most cases, will be the last ones displaced by cuts.

I rather doubt that Amtrak’s selection methodology for displacing passengers due to such cuts, is sophisticated enough to base displacements overall in multi-sleeper trains by longevity…

 

[zephyr17]

I assume that the so-called “base sleeper” on multi-sleeper trains being the last one to be cut for operational reasons, is because it is the first one to be sold, and therefore those holding reservations the longest in most cases, will be the last ones displaced by cuts.

I rather doubt that Amtrak’s selection methodology for displacing passengers due to such cuts, is sophisticated enough to base displacements overall in multi-sleeper trains by longevity…

I am really unsure about the algorithm Amtrak uses to assign space and wouldn't make assumptions. I know in the past I've been initially assigned to a transdorm and the agent was able to move me to a 30 car before I completed the booking at least once. That initial assignment to a transdorm violated any assumptions I had.

I doubt the reasoning is that sophisticated in deciding on which car line to pull. It is probably easier to just just go highest car line number to lowest.

I always call to make sleeper reservations because I am a bit picky about roomette locations (I dislike downstairs and transdorms).

I don't think they are sophisticated enough to bump people based on longevity, either. Or AGR status, or anything else except being in the car that's getting pulled.

 

[alanh]

Both directions of the Chief are cancelled today. Looks like they're trying to catch up from late trains.

 

[TinCan782]

I assume that the so-called “base sleeper” on multi-sleeper trains being the last one to be cut for operational reasons, is because it is the first one to be sold, and therefore those holding reservations the longest in most cases, will be the last ones displaced by cuts.

I rather doubt that Amtrak’s selection methodology for displacing passengers due to such cuts, is sophisticated enough to base displacements overall in multi-sleeper trains by longevity…

I was under the impression that sleeper rooms are assigned E in 30 and then E in 31; then D in 30 and D in 31, etc.
Don't ask me where I got that impression from!

 

[Eric in East County]

Both directions of the Chief are cancelled today. Looks like they're trying to catch up from late trains.

This is never good news to hear. Let's hope that this won't affect someone who had purchased tickets for today's SWC specifically as a Father's Day gift.

 

[zephyr17]

I was under the IMPRESSION that sleeper rooms are assigned E in 30 and then E in 31; then D in 30 and D in 31, etc.
Don't ask me where I got that impression from!

Switching back and forth between cars lines up with my impression, too.

 

[user 14106]

They have a bit of a better handle on shop counts and consist planning at this point so I personally am not worrying about being in the “base sleeper” at this point. If they make consist changes they are generally doing so with enough notice where it just results in a room assignment change and not a cancellation of downgrade as inventory isn’t sold out at that point. Keep in mind your room assignment can change for other reasons (if Amtrak has to pull out a room for training and they sometimes will move people around to satisfy special requests (like family members requesting rooms near each other and what not.))

 

[zephyr17]

My trust in Amtrak management's skills is now entirely lacking after those in charge of car maintenance and availability and those in charge of planning and the reservations system apparently stopped talking to each other and caused that debacle. It was entirely avoidable. And they kept making the same mistakes repeatedly for a year or more.

I know cars are coming back online and that massive screw up's reoccurance is less likely. But the management staff that was unable to count, plan, talk to each other, or all three, is still in place. The root cause of problem wasn't really car availability, but the inability to plan and project car availability and maintain the reservations system to reflect it.

I won't even get into the lack of timely notification to affected passengers. They pulled cars then waited to notify those impacted until just a couple weeks before departure, so making alternative plans was difficult if not impossible. And they didn't have even the feeblest excuse for that.

For myself, I am sticking to trying for base sleepers. Better safe than very sorry. But I worry less if I cannot get one now and will cross my fingers and book.

PS, note they cannot manage to get the windows washed for years at a time, either.

 

[Keith1951]

Ok. I need help understanding something. A few weeks ago, I tried what someone told me to do, try dummy reservations. Back then I put in 6 people in I guess they made it 3 bedrooms. It didn't go thru so I assumed it was because they didn't have 3 bedrooms available. Today I tried it with 8 people, I guess they made it 4 bedrooms, and it did go thru. Does that mean more rooms opened up since a few weeks ago? Also, the cost for 2 seniors in bedrooms today is $2448. When I did it for 8 seniors today the cost should be...4 x $2448 = $9792. But it jumped to $12444. Why the increase? All this is with the SWC, Chi-Lax, bedrooms, April 15,2025.

 

[zephyr17]

Okay, I am going to do the basic evaluation based on adult fares, not senior, since that is what is easily referenced on @niemi24s' chart.

Just now, I ran it on Amtrak.com for 4/15/25:
1 Bedroom for 2 adults at $2506. $2506 - $290 = $2216, 6th Bucket
2 Bedrooms for 4 adults at $5626. $5626/2 = $2813. $2813-290 (adult rail fare) = $2523, 7th bucket
3 Bedrooms for 6 adults at $8,439. $8439/3 = $2813. $2813 - $290 (adult rail fare) = $2523, 7th bucket
4 Bedrooms for 8 adults at $12,676. $12,676/4 = $3169. $3169 - $290 = $2879, 8th bucket, the top.

You discovered a bucket jump. Actually, two of them. These results show that there is currently one open bedroom allocated to the 6th bucket, after that it jumped to the next bucket, with 2 Bedrooms in the 7th bucket, then jumped again to the 8th bucket. If you exceed the lowest bucket inventory on a single reservation request and there is inventory in a higher bucket, the price for all the rooms requested jumps to highest price for any of them. If there is not inventory in a higher bucket, it will return "Sold Out".

Further, up to 5 rooms can booked for 8 people, but it will not go any higher than 5. There is not enough inventory to accommodate 8 adults each in their own Bedroom, so the total open Bedroom inventory is 5. The cost for 8 adults in 5 rooms is $15,265. It also means 3 doubles and 2 singles. That means a rail fare adjustment of $290 each for the 3 rooms with double occupancy to get single adult room pricing to reference back to the chart. 15265-(3x290) = 14395 adjusted total for single adult occupancy of 5 bedrooms. 14395/5 = 2879, again, high bucket.

Conclusions:
1. Bedroom total available inventory is 5. Those 5 are allocated with 1 in the 6th bucket (2216), 2 in the 7th bucket (2523) and 2 in the 8th bucket (2879)
2. If there were two sleepers currently assigned to the 4/15/25 departure, the total inventory would be 10. One sleeper, 5. Since it is very early, and there are 5 open bedrooms, it is highly likely only one sleeper is currently assigned to the 4/15/25 departure of train 3. The chances of all five bedrooms in one whole sleeper being sold out this early is unlikely. If there were two sleepers, I would expect to be able to book 6, 7 or 8 adults into singles. My opinion therefore is that 31 car is not slated to run next April on the SWC as of now. That very well may change.
3. Yield management has actively been fooling around with those departures for the SWC recently. The allocations and prices have been jumping around since this discussion started. My guess is they'll settle for awhile now, but yield management on the SWC/TE is confounding me and is unlike the patterns I have come to expect on some other trains I investigate more frequently, like the Builder. However, all inventory now seems consistent with a fairly common pattern of one room in the lowest open bucket, then more in higher ones, all of them high-ish.

I've always been able to get multiple bedrooms on that date through this whole discussion. I ran several other dates in April 2025 and get similar results, with the allocation of the first 3 rooms varying between 1 in the 6th bucket and 2 in the 7th bucket and 2 in the 6th bucket and 1 in the 7th bucket. That is also the inventory allocation for the last date open for sale right now, 5/16/25. It really looks like one sleeper assigned, no sales yet, and they've consistently allocated the April departures in a similar fashion. Finally, railsforless.us is giving different, and lower priced, results than Amtrak.com right now for these dates. Perhaps they cached old data?

With only one room in the 6th bucket now for your date, and no date at all lower than the 5th bucket for Bedrooms on the SW Chief between now and then, you may want to think about grabbing that 6th bucket price, which works out to $2448 for two seniors (2216 - 29 senior discount one rail fare + 261 senior rail fare). Prices may drop to the 5th bucket, but also when they actually start selling, that 6th bucket room will be the first to go. I normally wouldn't buy this far in advance and would wait for things to develop, but with only one room and the steps up after that of over $300, then nearly $700, I'd grab it. Keep monitoring though, and ask for a partial refund if it drops.

 

[Keith1951]

Years ago when I started riding Amtrak, I would go to the website and see what trip I wanted and booked it. If the price came down I would call them and get the reduced price. Those were the days of booking made easy. Today, I know a little more how Amtrak works, and doesnt work. Trains running late, 1rst to 8th buckets...though its still hard to understand some of what y'all are talking about with bucket prices. Bucket jumps, base sleepers and the 31 cars getting pulled, and I was in a 31 car last year. I could have missed my cruise connection in LA. I learned about railforless and dummy reservations. Back then I would book it and go. Now there is more that I know, and so much more to learn that it makes it harder to book because I need to check out so many things to make sure Im getting the best deal possible. Even though its more confusing, for me, I still like it now because I know a little of the goings on with Amtrak.

 

[zephyr17]

They've had yield management forever, but just used 5 buckets instead of 8 buckets until the last year or so. The additional 3 buckets are new. They started being more sophisticated in their yield management practices, no longer routinely allocating low buckets at 11 months out a few years before COVID, so that has been going on awhile, too. That's when I started looking for other patterns when I saw they weren't doing that any more. They got more aggressive in their yield management practices during the self-inflicted post COVID car shortage, but that didn't fundamentally alter their methods, they were just doing it with generally higher buckets.

Systematic pulling booked sleepers was an outbreak of stunning incompetence two years ago. Up until then, if you booked a sleeper you were virtually certain of getting it and it wasn't something to worry about, though there always had been the possibility of a car getting bad ordered at the very last minute. Pulling off booked sleepers for months at time and not notifying affected passengers in a timely manner was entirely new, and an unprecedented low. It affected several people on this board, notably @Eric in East County IIRC, but not just him. Restricting purchases to "base sleepers" was a strategy developed in pure self defense from having long planned and expensive trips ruined by flagrantly incompetent Amtrak management. Now it appears over with more cars returned to service, but once burned, twice shy. I myself take the conservative approach and still try for base sleepers. I don't want to be surprised again by that particular stupid Amtrak trick.

You certainly can still just buy and watch for drops. The strategies and tools explained here are only methods to suss out more information about pricing and inventory to support expensive purchasing decisions. You certainly do not need them to ride.

Finally, if it were me and my 4/15/25 date was firm, I'd grab that single, $2448/two senior, 6th bucket bedroom available on that date. Assuming, that is, they did not again reallocate inventory overnight in what turns out to be surprisingly dynamic yield management 10 months out for the SWC,

Despite all my fooling around with Amtrak.com and railsforless.us (or Ansnag in the past), including multiple dummy reservations, to discover pricing and inventory patterns, I do not dither around when it comes time to book. I also don't let the perfect, in the form of lowest bucket, be the enemy of the good. That lowest bucket may well never show. If I see a mid when they have been high I'll grab it and be happy.

 

[Eric in East County]

Finally, if it were me and my 4/15/25 date was firm, I'd grab that single, $2448/two senior, 6th bucket bedroom available on that date.

We made the reservations for our upcoming September trip last October and were able to obtain bedrooms in base sleepers 430 eastbound and 330 westbound. (We were even able to get a Bedroom E for our westbound passage.) We’re just now making our reservations for our May 2025 trip.

 

[ancompton]

about 2 weeks ago at 7 AM we priced a roomette on eastbound EB from Portland to Glacier for this Oct; got first bucket. at 11 AM the same arrangement was 2nd bucket; the next day it was back to first bucket; since plans wern't yet firm, we let it slide; Sometimes I wonder if pricechecking from same computor for same route doesnT "nudge" the price.

 

[Keith1951]

I am really unsure about the algorithm Amtrak uses to assign space and wouldn't make assumptions. I know in the past I've been initially assigned to a transdorm and the agent was able to move me to a 30 car before I completed the booking at least once. That initial assignment to a transdorm violated any assumptions I had.

I doubt the reasoning is that sophisticated in deciding on which car line to pull. It is probably easier to just just go highest car line number to lowest.

I always call to make sleeper reservations because I am a bit picky about roomette locations (I dislike downstairs and transdorms).

I don't think they are sophisticated enough to bump people based on longevity, either. Or AGR status, or anything else except being in the car that's getting pulled.

What's a transdorm?

 

[jis]

What's a transdorm?

See:

https://www.amtraktrains.com/thread...ition-car-questions.82150/page-2#post-1043507

for an explanation.

 

[Eric in East County]

We have a question regarding the Amtrak reservation system and how long it takes to update to show changes made to an existing reservation. A few weeks ago, we made a one-way reservation on SWC No. 4 from LAX to CHI, paid for using our Guest Rewards card. This morning, we called the Guest Rewards number and, working with a live agent, revised our reservation, adding a return trip from CHI to LAX on SWC No. 3, which was also paid for using our Guest Rewards Card. We were e-mailed an e-ticket, but it only shows the LAX-CHI portion of our trip on SWC No. 4. When we checked our upcoming trips on the Amtrak site, it also only shows the LAX-CHI portion. We’re assuming that the reservations computer still hasn’t updated to include the trip we just added. However, we’d appreciate it if someone who knows and understands the reservation system can confirm this. About how long will we have to wait before our return trip final shows up?

 

[daybeers]

Probably ongoing negotiations with BNSF. With the "new" (effective December 2020) STB/FRA passenger delay regs, authorized by the PRIIA Act of 2008 but held up in court for years, many LDs have undergone schedule tweaks to come up with 'enforceable' schedules.

Still waiting for that enforcement.

 

[zephyr17]

Still waiting for that enforcement.

They have a active case under it against the UP for its handling of the Sunset before the STB right now.

Even using regulatory agencies instead of DOJ and the courts takes time. And, of course, UP is fighting it.

 

[TinCan782]

We have a question regarding the Amtrak reservation system and how long it takes to update to show changes made to an existing reservation. A few weeks ago, we made a one-way reservation on SWC No. 4 from LAX to CHI, paid for using our Guest Rewards card. This morning, we called the Guest Rewards number and, working with a live agent, revised our reservation, adding a return trip from CHI to LAX on SWC No. 3, which was also paid for using our Guest Rewards Card. We were e-mailed an e-ticket, but it only shows the LAX-CHI portion of our trip on SWC No. 4. When we checked our upcoming trips on the Amtrak site, it also only shows the LAX-CHI portion. We’re assuming that the reservations computer still hasn’t updated to include the trip we just added. However, we’d appreciate it if someone who knows and understands the reservation system can confirm this. About how long will we have to wait before our return trip final shows up?

I'm used to changes showing up rather quickly, I'm guessing you do too!
That said, I've noticed that the new SWC times are still not reflected when I view my September/October ticket in the app and on the website. If I generate a "schedule" for those dates via the website, it shows the updated times!
I tried to email myself the ticket it returns the message "We've experienced an unknown error. Try again later or call us at 1-800-USA-RAIL."!
UPDATE: Now my app shows both 4 and 3 TWICE!!! At the new time and at the previous time. WTF!

 

[zephyr17]

I'm used to changes showing up rather quickly, I'm guessing you do too!
That said, I've noticed that the new SWC times are still not reflected when I view my September/October ticket in the app and on the website. If I generate a "schedule" for those dates via the website, it shows the updated times!
I tried to email myself the ticket it returns the message "We've experienced an unknown error. Try again later or call us at 1-800-USA-RAIL."!
UPDATE: Now my app shows both 4 and 3 TWICE!!! At the new time and at the previous time. ***!

Amtrak IT strikes again!

In any case, though, it is nothing to worry about. The boarding pass with the old times is perfectly valid, and the so are either of the iterations on the app. They'll probably straighten out the two boarding passes on the app eventually, as well as the ability to generate an email.

The times on the boarding pass are just there for your convenience. It has no bearing on the underlying, valid, eticket held within the system, which will not have been reissued.

 

[zephyr17]

We have a question regarding the Amtrak reservation system and how long it takes to update to show changes made to an existing reservation. A few weeks ago, we made a one-way reservation on SWC No. 4 from LAX to CHI, paid for using our Guest Rewards card. This morning, we called the Guest Rewards number and, working with a live agent, revised our reservation, adding a return trip from CHI to LAX on SWC No. 3, which was also paid for using our Guest Rewards Card. We were e-mailed an e-ticket, but it only shows the LAX-CHI portion of our trip on SWC No. 4. When we checked our upcoming trips on the Amtrak site, it also only shows the LAX-CHI portion. We’re assuming that the reservations computer still hasn’t updated to include the trip we just added. However, we’d appreciate it if someone who knows and understands the reservation system can confirm this. About how long will we have to wait before our return trip final shows up?

Normally it is virtually instantaneous and takes place before the email with the boarding pass pdf is generated

I would be concerned if your emailed PDF boarding pass does not show both legs and checking your trips on the website does not show both, either. I'd call back immediately if it were me.

BTW, there is no price/point advantage to booking a round trip versus two one-ways. There was no need to modify an existing reservation to add a return, another one-way reservation would have accomplished the same thing more simply. Also, at least in the past, a round trip always held the risk of the conductor missing the scan on the outbound and the return trip getting cancelled. That did happen to me, although thankfully it was a corridor trip and all I lost was a business class seat when the return was reinstated. There have been reports that Amtrak has stopped the policy of automatically cancelling the remainder of the reservation if a ticket is not scanned, but cannot vouch for that. In any case, I still book anything with an overnight or longer layover as separate reservations to put firewalls in my itinerary against automatic cancellation mishaps.

 

[Eric in East County]

Normally it is virtually instantaneous and takes place before the email with the boarding pass pdf is generated

I would be concerned if your emailed PDF boarding pass does not show both legs and checking your trips on the website does not show both, either. I'd call back immediately if it were me.

Zephyr17,

Thank you for your prompt response. We called Amtrak Guest Rewards back and they had no record of our CHI to LAX reservation having been made!!!! (Again, we HAD spoken to a live agent who repeated back the car number and room letter we'd asked for!!! Also, our Guest Rewards Card currently shows a pending transaction for this reservation!!!) We remade the reservation. The second agent who waited on us did not come across as particularly competent and we had to explain what we wanted to him several times before he understood. When our e-ticket was received, he’d omitted both of our Guest Rewards Numbers and we had to call back again to have them added and a new e-ticket sent to us. On the plus side, the third agent we talked to gave us 1,000 Guest Rewards Points for having to call back about this omission. We’re still not sure about that pending transaction on our Guest Rewards Card for the reservation that was never made. If it actually does go through, we’ll call Customer Relations right away to have it cancelled. (Perhaps we’ll get even more Guest Rewards points!)

One bit of information that we got out of all of this: a Deluxe Bedroom on SWC No. 3 from CHI to LAX currently can be had for 118,838 Guest Reward Points if you happen to have that many.

Eric & Pat

 

[zephyr17]

One bit of information that we got out of all of this: a Deluxe Bedroom on SWC No. 3 from CHI to LAX currently can be had for 118,838 Guest Reward Points if you happen to have that many.

Oof. That pretty much works out to being based on a high bucket fare. 118838 x 0.02667 = 3169.41. The high bucket fare for a single adult in a Deluxe Bedroom is 2879 then adding the additional 290 sleeper rail fare is 3169.

Glad you were able to catch the agent's mistake quickly and have your correct itinerary now. It is disheartening to hear that the agent was incompetent, historically AGR agents are the cream of the crop. I make even my cash sleeper trips involving no points with AGR agents.

If you paid 118,838 points for your CHI-LAX, I wasn't clear on whether that was what you paid for your trip or just a general quote for a room near term, but if you did, I'd keep watching your date for drops and try to get a partial refund (I don't know whether they do that with points).

 

[Eric in East County]

If you paid 118,838 points for your CHI-LAX, I wasn't clear on whether that was what you paid for your trip or just a general quote for a room near term, but if you did, I'd keep watching your date for drops and try to get a partial refund (I don't know whether they do that with points).

We paid using our Guest Rewards Card. We explained to the second agent that we spoke to that we would be doing so, but he ran the numbers anyhow and then told us that it would be 118,838 points and that we didn't have enough points. Once he understood, he ran our card number and all was well. With the summer season now underway, Amtrak undoubtedly has added more agents to work the phones and make reservations. Perhaps some of these aren't up the usual high standards of the AGR agents one usually encounters.

We will be sure to keep checking the prices as it gets closer to our departure next May.